KickStarter Dead State: Reanimated

[Zombra]

I think that if a Steam review has 1,000 upvotes, then those upvotes are there for 1,000 different reasons, but the stated purpose of that button is "this review was helpful". It does not in any way imply some kind of popular "I agree with you and you are correct" mandate.

Yet the point is still that Steam is not the place if you want to find valid criticism of any kind.

... Which was my point in the first place. The guy is a lone crank and his upvotes pretty much mean nothing.

 

[Infinitron]

I think the people who keep repeating "they missed the zombie fad!!!" are missing the point. Even if that's true, which is arguable, it's still the least of DoubleBear's problems.

Their problem isn't that they missed the zombie fad. Their problem is that they missed the "weird/small/low budget RPG" fad. See also: what happened to the Eschalon series after the first game.

 

[Angthoron]

I think that if a Steam review has 1,000 upvotes, then those upvotes are there for 1,000 different reasons, but the stated purpose of that button is "this review was helpful". It does not in any way imply some kind of popular "I agree with you and you are correct" mandate.

Yet the point is still that Steam is not the place if you want to find valid criticism of any kind.

... Which was my point in the first place. The guy is a lone crank and his upvotes pretty much mean nothing.

Kinda yes, kinda no. His reviews mean nothing to people that know that shit is meaningless, but then, those people usually don't care about MetaCritic, IGN and such, either. For an impulse buyer, it means the world, and sadly, a lot of revenue with games comes from impulse buyers. Fuck, a lot of money with anything comes from impulse buyers. So yeah, by shitting up Steam, he/they drop the chances for an impulse buy, and just as unfortunately, by fucking up with PR, DB drops the chance of informed people buying it. They should've just ignored it and let it be, it'd get 15 upboats and sink.

I think the people who keep repeating "they missed the zombie fad!!!" are missing the point. Even if that's true, which is arguable to say the least, it's still the least of DB's problems.

Their problem isn't that they missed the zombie fad. Their problem is that they missed the "weird/small RPG" fad. See also: what happened to the Eschalon series after the first game.

Well, it's both, sort of. On one hand, suddenly there's a thousand SURVIVAL games WITH ZOMBIES, it's like every game where you survive has to have things that are past survival date. Forest and The Long Dark, representing SURVIVAL, seem to be attracting more people by virtue of NOT having zombies for a change. Man, even supernatural tribals in Forest are fresh when all you have to compare to are shambling cadavers!

But then you also have the "small quirky RPGs/games in general" fad that eventually gets stamped out by industry veterans coming in and promising to do what they do best, for YOU the OLDSCHOOLERS, just the way YOU like it, and oh shit, was there a small indie studio making a zombie survival rpg? Can't remember...

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Out of curiosity, how many here have finished the game? I've shelved it for now, got up to about day 40, I'll probably get around to finishing it eventually, but definitely can't see myself replaying the game in its current state. How do you peeps who have finished the game or gotten to 40+ days of it feel about the game overall?

Too lazy to load it up and check what game day I'm on, but I got to 36 hours before I hit the wall and mostly lost interest. I will finish it eventually, but I went from playing it every evening to playing a mission or two every 3 or 4 days. I actually tried running out the clock for shits and giggles, just spamming the sleep button and avoiding doing runs, but I do end up being murdered by Mr. Wheelchair due to lack of food before the end of the game proper despite having over 1k food stockpiled and all food buildings and upgrades built.

 

[Kz3r0]

Nobody here wanted this game.

Oh? Let's see if that's true.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=6172
http://www.rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=6176
http://www.rpgcodex.net/tags.php?id=713

One thing's for sure - that's a hell of a lot of responses for a game nobody cared about.

The truth is that in the pre-Kickstarter period of decline, "weird" RPGs like Dead State, Knights of the Chalice, Age of Decadence, Grimoire, etc, were a big big deal on the Codex.

Since Kickstarter began, so much has changed that people can't really wrap their heads around how things were back then. The past is a different country.

And now we have retards saying that a turn based party RPG is not a big deal, sure, let cheer for all the developers choosing this route going out of business, I a, sure it will do wonders for the next projects.

 

[Drakron]

I think the people who keep repeating "they missed the zombie fad!!!" are missing the point. Even if that's true, which is arguable to say the least, it's still the least of DoubleBear's problems.

I am not missing the point because I am not talking about the studio but the game, Dead State would sell a lot more if it was released in 2012-13.
Unless the studio just wants to make Zombie games ...

Their problem isn't that they missed the zombie fad. Their problem is that they missed the "weird/small/low budget RPG" fad. See also: what happened to the Eschalon series after the first game.

No, studios have to be flexible to deal with the market ... you can make niche games but you go there knowing its a very niche market and that can cost the studio survival (see Troika), it can pay off (see CCP) but it can also later bite then in the ass (see CCP).

Point is they only released a game and I am not seeing how they can fund themselves considering how their only game was funded by Kickstarter and Early Access, if they want to continue then who is going to fund them ... if its crowdfunded then you better not go piss off your investors because Kickstarter ISNT a pre-order scheme and neither is Early Access.

 

[Mastermind]

I think the people who keep repeating "they missed the zombie fad!!!" are missing the point. Even if that's true, which is arguable to say the least, it's still the least of DoubleBear's problems.

Their problem isn't that they missed the zombie fad. Their problem is that they missed the "weird/small/low budget RPG" fad. See also: what happened to the Eschalon series after the first game.

Dead State expenses are at least in the mid 6 digits. That's not small or low budget, except when compared to an AAA title. KOTC is a small/low budget rpg. I don't understand why you call it weird either, it's as stereotypical a zombie setting as you can get. It's like calling a d&d derivative like KOTC "weird". They should switch to making 2d games, use Gamemaker to save a fuckton of coding time and produce a pixel art Fallout clone instead.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

What about Driftmoon? That was a small indie RPG that was good for what it was. It didn't generate any kind of negative feedback. MAny sites were kind to it because of its quirkiness and good sense of humour.

Seems to me that if Double Bear went for that route and made sure they only released it when it was ready, there wouldn't be any of this backlash - and maybe it would actually have got some mainstream coverage.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Ha. Looked at the store page for Dead State. Despite still having a blue "Mostly positive" user reviews rating, like Infini mentioned earlier every review on the store page (Except Anus Pounder's 'cause friend) is negative. Not only that, most of them were mysteriously posted on December 23rd-24th. I wonder what happened.

(and even though i am getting some schadenfreude and was fine with the dude bitching about the game in his review, the review bombing spawned by this is a bit silly. i mean look at this guy, his avatar has a monocle so you know he knows what he's talking about)
http://steamcommunity.com/id/zebulan/recommended/239840/
(half an hour of the game played. review is just being butthurt over the developer being a shit. developers being shitty can drive me crazy too but the games are the important part. i don't like bethesda the company at all, but i love their games because i love rape mods hiking simulations so i still buy their shit. by comparison the guy that spawned this shitstorm had complaints about the game and tied that to the developer releasing the game too early. instead of just DOUBLEBEAR YOU A SHIT)

 

[Elhoim]

Out of curiosity, how many here have finished the game?

Just went and checked, seems I got to day 48.:D Had 5478 morale, 2968.8 food, 967 parts, 78 antibiotics and 155.4 gallons of fuel. With every upgrade built 'n shit.:S I'm in agreement with most here, the game just becomes too fucking boring after a while.:/ Shame. I don't think I'll ever finish it. I tried to though! I really, really tried. Think it was that HUGE hospital that finally killed it for me. I liked how it looked, loved the size of it and all that, but the game glitched out and stuck me in combat mode for pretty much that entire area because zombies could see through floors for some reason.:S I'd be walking around in the ground floor and aggro zombies on the first floor, which would then take forever to get to me, leaving me stuck in combat mode. Was not a fun experience.

That was in the Early Access, the hospital was fixed in the release.

 

[Angthoron]

What about Driftmoon? That was a small indie RPG that was good for what it was. It didn't generate any kind of negative feedback. MAny sites were kind to it because of its quirkiness and good sense of humour.

Hey, thanks for reminding about this one! I was going to get it, but then forgot all about it.

It's 80% off on Steam right now, too...

 

[Sycophantic Noob]

I think the people who keep repeating "they missed the zombie fad!!!" are missing the point. Even if that's true, which is arguable, it's still the least of DoubleBear's problems.

Their problem isn't that they missed the zombie fad. Their problem is that they missed the "weird/small/low budget RPG" fad. See also: what happened to the Eschalon series after the first game.

They missed both. When Deadstate was conceived, the zombie phase had barely started. Heck, even Walking Dead the tv series was in it's first season I think, if that. Everyone here was super excited for it, except those not fans of zombies. The game also predates Kickstarter, when Brian was working on it in his free time rather than full time.

They just so damn long they missed everything. And there was no real 'weird/small/low budget RPG' fad per se', there was just an incredibly long period of time when there were no rpgs being released. We only got Morrowind and Oblivion from AAA devs, with Dragon AGE tacked on at the tail end of the lull, before word of new RPGs being developed started creeping out. With Grimrock & then the Kickstarter explosion we went into a surplus of RPGs and that has burned us out. Add to that all the shit on Steam, the bundles and the quality non RPGs released (like Arkham series) there is massive fatigue.

Oh and Eschalon was a breath of fresh air, their only competition at the time was Jeff Vogel. And each game has been improved over the last, he finished strong. Not sure what Basilisk is doing right now though; Eschalon was always planned as a trilogy from the very start. He wanted to do a first person RPG after that.

Still, they could still have good sales, except Annie had to go and open her mouth on the internetz.

inXile also seems to be heading for that same destination with Torment by the way. I have little excitement for it, even though it uses a good and fresh tabletop ruleset with many possibilities and promises a good story. I hope they take a good long time developing and polishing this game. Obisidan appears to be blowing it bad with PoE, unfortunately. Most of my excitement went down with the beta.

 

[tuluse]

What about Driftmoon? That was a small indie RPG that was good for what it was. It didn't generate any kind of negative feedback. MAny sites were kind to it because of its quirkiness and good sense of humour.

Seems to me that if Double Bear went for that route and made sure they only released it when it was ready, there wouldn't be any of this backlash - and maybe it would actually have got some mainstream coverage.

http://steamcharts.com/app/263380

A whole peak of 25 players didn't get mad.

Also, DoubleBear literally did not have the choice of delaying the game any longer. Not unless Annie and Brian have figured out a way to not need food any more.

 

[Western]

Nobody here wanted this game.

Oh? Let's see if that's true.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=6172
http://www.rpgcodex.net/article.php?id=6176
http://www.rpgcodex.net/tags.php?id=713

One thing's for sure - that's a hell of a lot of responses for a game nobody cared about.

The truth is that in the pre-Kickstarter period of decline, "weird" RPGs like Dead State, Knights of the Chalice, Age of Decadence, Grimoire, etc, were a big big deal on the Codex.

Since Kickstarter began, so much has changed that people can't really wrap their heads around how things were back then. The past is a different country.

And now we have retards saying that a turn based party RPG is not a big deal, sure, let cheer for all the developers choosing this route going out of business, I a, sure it will do wonders for the next projects.

People should cheer for good RPG projects, and I say this as a person who backed Dead State both here and on Kickstarter. I wanted to give Brian and Annie a shot at making a good RPG unfortunately they've fallen short and should do their best to take criticism on the chin and learn from criticism that's constructive.

The game has/had potential, if they could adjust the combat system and challenge enough to keep challenge in the game, and make survival a bit more of a struggle long term, as well as give the game a bit more polish, and to get rid of the remaining bugs and glitches. The game could be decent, a good first effort where I'd be willing to back a future project.

As it stands though (SJW politics aside), they've been pretty unapologetic about releasing the game with a lot of known bugs, to say nothing of the weak mid-end game which is what really drags down this title. AOD is an unfinished title and gets lots of love and fanboys on the Codex (I'm one), it's just a more interesting and compelling product compared to Dead State.

Even in terms of writing AOD is more interesting, not that DS writing is bad, it's just that maybe there were some higher expectations from Mitsoda, there were a lot of fans of his Bloodlines writing after all.

In conclusion if it was just a better game full stop, we wouldn't be having this conversation and Double Bear wouldn't be in their current situation, maybe they had to release for financial reasons but they should have been up front about that and they would probably have a lot more sympathy now. I feel sorry for them but that doesn't mean they should be getting uncritical support because they made a turn-based RPG, a mediocre game should be called out as such regardless of mechanics, mediocre titles should fall by the wayside to make space (and allow more dollars) for good titles in the same space.

 

[ZodoZ]

Man, I bought this game.

Don't be hard on your self Man. We have all made questionnable calls in our past. Anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves and everyone else "Listening John Kerry? No? Of course not because you are a self-entitled moron." Anyway. Next. Move on. Stop dwelling on minutae. It's unmanly.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

What about Driftmoon? That was a small indie RPG that was good for what it was. It didn't generate any kind of negative feedback. MAny sites were kind to it because of its quirkiness and good sense of humour.

Seems to me that if Double Bear went for that route and made sure they only released it when it was ready, there wouldn't be any of this backlash - and maybe it would actually have got some mainstream coverage.

http://steamcharts.com/app/263380

A whole peak of 25 players didn't get mad.

Also, DoubleBear literally did not have the choice of delaying the game any longer. Not unless Annie and Brian have figured out a way to not need food any more.

25 players. Wow. I'm not one of them, though. I got Driftmoon from GOG.

 

[Neckbeard Shitlord]

(and even though i am getting some schadenfreude and was fine with the dude bitching about the game in his review, the review bombing spawned by this is a bit silly. i mean look at this guy, his avatar has a monocle so you know he knows what he's talking about)
http://steamcommunity.com/id/zebulan/recommended/239840/
(half an hour of the game played. review is just being butthurt over the developer being a shit. developers being shitty can drive me crazy too but the games are the important part. i don't like bethesda the company at all, but i love their games because i love rape mods hiking simulations so i still buy their shit. by comparison the guy that spawned this shitstorm had complaints about the game and tied that to the developer releasing the game too early. instead of just DOUBLEBEAR YOU A SHIT)

You can't really bomb with reviews without getting the game, so this is how fans really feel. I got fed up with the attitude even before the KS campaign but if I'd stuck with it I would probably be writing a shitty review, too.

I guess what's annoying to me is that I tend to buy crap from indie devs and most the time never play it, do it just to support them. DB just shows some amazing lack of gratitude and a delusional sense of entitlement. The guy with half hour is no doubt a backer who just wanted to help out even though he was not that invested in the game, and the shenanigans are a spit in the face for all the people who did.

It's also depressing to think probably the majority of the people are like this guy. This is not really the game they wanted in the first place, but they backed anyway. I think they just made a type of game almost no one is that thrilled by, now they aren't making any more sales and they are freaking out.

The thing is they got a bunch of money already through kickstarter before they released anything. Now they seem to feel entitled to be paid in advance to make yet another game, just because. I mean god forbid you actually put some work into your own company FOR FREE without being PREPAID to RUN YOUR OWN COMPANY that makes VIDEO GAMES

The game is mostly content based, and to be honest holy crap I could care less about content made by indie devs. You know, like Depression Quest etc. Games like FTL and Mount & Blade and Knights of the Chalice are good games because they don't try to be AAA game with stripped down budget but concentrate on the gameplay and fun. They could easily have made a more traditional RPG and got way more sales and way more support. They want to make what they want instead of what the public wants, then to jerk around everyone to grab as much money as possible, stifle any dissent, and get paid in advanced to make whatever game they have a fancy to make next time.

 

[Lhynn]

Im not a fan of zombie games and i still was expecting this game eagerly.

 

[ZodoZ]

This is what happens when you let the pink jelly beans suck your cock in exchange for corporate say so.

 

[Drakron]

Also, DoubleBear literally did not have the choice of delaying the game any longer. Not unless Annie and Brian have figured out a way to not need food any more.

KSP is still in Early Access (note: Fuck whoever decided to call it that because it means I have to type it every time since I refuse to type EA, its just wrong), been there since March 2013, it even have a demo.

I say this to point out that they didnt had to pull it from Early Access, its not as if you arent paying for Early Access either ... and I doubt any sales on "release" would change much, at best you would get on the front page but still any sales you made were done long ago in Kickstarter and Early Access.

Plus this caused this situation, if you did it because "need food" then dont act as if the game was ready and anyone that points out the issues is labeled a "hater" and "troll", its dishonest and people will see it and that means that review is exactly right, that it was a cash grab to get it out of Early Access because they needed the money.

People are more willing to accept shortcommings if you are honest about them.

 

[Ovplain]

That was in the Early Access, the hospital was fixed in the release.

Well, not for me it wasn't.:D Think I only played 14 minutes total in Early Access.

 

[tuluse]

KSP is still in Early Access (note: Fuck whoever decided to call it that because it means I have to type it every time since I refuse to type EA, its just wrong), been there since March 2013, it even have a demo.

I say this to point out that they didnt had to pull it from Early Access, its not as if you arent paying for Early Access either ... and I doubt any sales on "release" would change much, at best you would get on the front page but still any sales you made were done long ago in Kickstarter and Early Access.

Plus this caused this situation, if you did it because "need food" then dont act as if the game was ready and anyone that points out the issues is labeled a "hater" and "troll", its dishonest and people will see it and that means that review is exactly right, that it was a cash grab to get it out of Early Access because they needed the money.

People are more willing to accept shortcommings if you are honest about them.

Kerbal Space Program: peak players 10k
http://steamcharts.com/app/220200

Dead State: 1.5k
http://steamcharts.com/app/239840#1m

I'm guessing KSP has a bit more budget to work on yeah.

Also, look at the Dead State players jump on release day. Some of that is people who had previously bought giving the 1.0 release a try, but I would bet a lot of it is new sales.

Early Access doesn't sell like a fully released game does.

Edit: yeah, they probably should have said we're releasing because we're out of money and intend to patch it up post release but like Annie said there's a reason she's not in PR.

 

[Metro]

The good news is you can afford a couple of packs of Ramen when I buy this in a Humble Bundle.

 

[Western]

The good news is you can afford a couple of packs of Ramen when I buy this in a Humble Bundle.

You have a kind heart good sir.

 

[Metro]

Hey, it's Christmas.