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Dead Cells, an indie roguelite Metroidvania

Wunderbar

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Joined
Nov 15, 2015
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8,825
Whoa, no idea how they convinced modern-day, Konami of allllll companies to get on board with this.
There's nothing strange about that. Konami both doesn't care about the reputation of its IPs AND wants to get back into gaming because their pachinko industry got hit by covid. Such combination of not caring and wanting more money is a pathway to many decisions some consider to be unnatural, like giving Silent Hill 2 to polaks.

Their execs are probably happy to lend Castlevania to indies for some cheap publicity.
 

Theodora

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There's nothing strange about that.
The decision would've had to have been made a while ago, and given years and years have passed where Konami execs have continually rejected apparent "free money", if it would e sourced from outside their pachinko focus, it surprised me at least. While I was vaguely aware that they were talking about releasing actual games again, that doesn't mean they're suddenly not obtuse at dealing with fans, esp. outside of Japan; and as far as I know have been unwilling to trust other game devs with their IP. Presumably related to this, given how abnormal this relationship in particular is. (Even as far as indie outfits go, Motion Twin are tiny.)

I'd be happy for you to be correct, this is just the first time I've seen them do anything that could be seen as a productive reaction to the success of Bloodstained.
 

Sukhāvatī

a.k.a. Mañjuśṛī
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
^
I was loving this DLC, until I learned that for some dumb reason, you cannot play through all of the Castlevania stages in one run. The player has to make a choice to either play through the first 3 stages (Castle Outskirts, Dracula's Castle, and the Defiled Necropolis boss fight versus Death) and then never encounter Dracula, or to play the standard Dead Cells stages and choose to fight Dracula as a final boss instead.
wtfamireading.png
 

Kruno

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Village Idiot Zionist Agent Shitposter
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^
I was loving this DLC, until I learned that for some dumb reason, you cannot play through all of the Castlevania stages in one run. The player has to make a choice to either play through the first 3 stages (Castle Outskirts, Dracula's Castle, and the Defiled Necropolis boss fight versus Death) and then never encounter Dracula, or to play the standard Dead Cells stages and choose to fight Dracula as a final boss instead.
wtfamireading.png
it should have been the entire SotN castle with all the bosses!
 
Joined
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4,170
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Chicago, IL, Kwa
Thought about trying this but then I remembered Rogue Legacy 2 exists. I'd rather play that. RL1 was the bomb.
They’re both really good, but Dead Cells probably edges RL2 out due to art style and tighter platforming controls.

But both really good and worth playing if you’re a fan of the genre.
 

Theodora

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Rogue Legacy is neat, but what does it have to do with Dead Cells? It's a great example of how two games can occupy share some genre labels and be next to nothing alike. (The meta-progression is completely different between them.)
 

Ash

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Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,055
What's the deal with Dead Cells? I played the base game only 2 or so years ago and it wasn't particularly impressive. Mechanics are ok. Level design is ok. Soundtrack is ok. Art style ok. everything just ok. I don't get the hype. There's numerous better action-roguelikes or metroidvanias out there.
 
Joined
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What's the deal with Dead Cells? I played the base game only 2 or so years ago and it wasn't particularly impressive. Mechanics are ok. Level design is ok. Soundtrack is ok. Art style ok. everything just ok. I don't get the hype. There's numerous better action-roguelikes or metroidvanias out there.

Seems like you didn't play it much from that description.

The levels are procedurally generated and only have level design in the "LEGO brick" sense, i.e. not at all. This of course instantly disqualifies it from being considered a Metroidvania, and only retards and journos will call it such if they've played for more than a few hours. I am normally not a fan of procedural generation, but Dead Cells makes it work by nailing other elements of roguelite design -more on that later.

The mechanics of the game are actually pretty good, verging on great, and there are some really fun under-the-hood interactions between different items/powers/mutations/stat builds, but the nature of the game's progression system definitely slow-rolls this side of itself, and the average player is unlikely to see any of these interactions until somewhere around the 30 hour mark (although to be fair I have 350 hours played, so that's a relatively small fraction of the play experience for some). Grind is overall the biggest problem the game has, and the devs don't seem interested in addressing that (which is unfortunate).

Soundtrack? Eh... can't really comment. I rarely listen to games without my own music on in the background. From what I can recall: yeah, Dead Cell's is serviceable, but nothing special.

I think the art is pretty good though, especially in some of the more horror themed biomes. If the art design doesn't do it for you then I can see why it would be meh, but they're very consistent in executing on the style they're going for, and for me it works.

Curious which action roguelites/likes you think are obviously superior to Dead Cells. I've played a lot of them, and the only one I would say is superior is Hades, and that's coming very close to comparing apples to oranges.

Things I think you might be missing about Dead Cells:

Content. Dead Cells has an insane amount of content, especially with the DLCs. I don't know of any other modern roguelites that offer such a breadth of content, nor any other roguelite that has allowed it's content to influence build-choice for any given run (e.g. in a run that you're being showered with survival gear and stat boosts you are probably going to want to prioritize biomes with slow-moving, but heavy-hitting mobs who are easily parryable for optimal success).

Platforming controls. The only (relatively) recent game I've played that I think beats Dead Cells here is Hollow Knight. Dead Cells has very tight platforming controls (though if you didn't play to the point where you get the Spider Rune this may not be all that apparent).

Fairness. Dead Cells is a pretty hard game, especially once you're in BSC3 and above. But almost every time I die in it I think "FUCK... well, ok... I guess that was my fault." Either I built my char stupidly, or I got greedy and took on a challenge that I knew was going to be very high-risk for my build/loadout, or I just cannonballed off a high-dive and landed in a pool of spikes because I wanted my time bonus for the level (this is where that intelligent procgen level design comes in). It's very rare that I throw down my controller in a fit because the game blindsided me with some stupid bullshit.


I think you would probably like it if you gave it another shake, though I would say that (unfortunately) the DLC is probably mandatory for maximum enjoyment as they have added a lot of fun items/powers/biomes and also the best bosses (only taking about RotG, Bad Seed, Fatal Flaw, and Queen and the Sea; haven't played the Castlevania one yet).
 

spekkio

Arcane
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
8,346
Platforming controls. The only (relatively) recent game I've played that I think beats Dead Cells here is Hollow Knight. Dead Cells has very tight platforming controls (though if you didn't play to the point where you get the Spider Rune this may not be all that apparent).
100% agree. At the same time, we have plenty fags @ the Dex praising some "vanias" with obv. shitty controls. With controls being p. important part of a platforming game I would say... :roll:
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,055

Curious which action roguelites you think are better than Dead Cells

Everspace
Synthetik
Hades
Spelunky
Spelunky 2
Immortal Redneck
Devil Spire
One More Dungeon 2
Void Bastards

And then when it comes to Metroidvanias, of course the Igavanias, Hollow Knight and whatever else that tickles your fancy. Dead Cells just did not compete, for me. As mentioned, everything was just OK at best. OK is respectable on some level, it's not trash, but it ain't great either.

I will be trying Rogue Legacy 2 at some point, looks cool. And I have a few others on my radar yet to be played (e.g Ziggurat 2, Have a Nice Death and others)
 
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Latelistener

Arcane
Joined
May 25, 2016
Messages
2,625
Are there Dead Cells veterans here, perchance? I'm kinda wondering if I should play the older versions and if yes, then which ones and why. There are 35 available using the Steam Betas menu, not counting the last one.

I have read a lot of pissed off reviews throughout the years, upset by some changes. And considering the amount of updates the game received there are plenty of chances to make some questionable changes.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,055
I played Dead Cells about 4 years ago. Was thoroughly unimpressed (not a bad game, but the hype was most certainly overblown - it's not even close to the best Roguelite) didn't even care to finish it, and never looked back. Now I am quite curious what the game is like today, after 35 whole updates or whatever lol.
 

Latelistener

Arcane
Joined
May 25, 2016
Messages
2,625
Answering my own question, people recommend trying out the game before it was handed to Evil Empire. That would be version 1.3 or even 1.4 (their first update).

Apparently they added a lot of content, but did a poor job on balancing. Most viable builds are just not fun to play with.
 

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