From Software Dark Souls 3

[Silva]

I know youre all gameplay-fags and will probably tag "STOP POSTING" but I'll try anyway...



_ _ _

In name of the cohesiveness of its lore, wouldn't DS3 have benefited from a Sullyvhan cutscene, similar to the Laurence one in Bloodborne?

Replaying DS3 now and I feel that, aside from it's very basic premise of carrying the lords to their thrones to link the Fire, the game really struggles to get across other messages that, I feel, are important. This is specially true for Sullyvahn, for the pivotal role he plays in the current state of the world, in taking measures and convincing other central players to let the Fire fade.

So, if we had a short cutscene showing Sully talking to Lothric or Aldrich, convincing them to let the fire fade or something similar, it would make this important "plot" more evident and resonate more strongly. Bloodborne did this to good effect in that Laurence and Master Willen cutscene, in a way that did not detract from the deductive nature of the series narrative.

 

[Silverfish]

DS3 in general isn't as well thought out as Bloodborne or DS2. Sulyvahn's probably the worst example, but Aldrich & Anri, Yhorm & Siegward, and the hollow lord plot as a whole all feel underbaked.

 

[Caim]

Sulyvahn was going to be an end game enemy, maybe even the final boss. But he was cut and now he's just a dude in a church. The first DLC does reveal he's from Ariandel, with his dad being a Corvian and his mom being the Birch Woman you find in the corner of the ice lake. So instead of being the final boss fighting like he's Emperor Palpatine, but no so it's tree son, then.

 

[Tyrr]

DS3 in general isn't as well thought out as Bloodborne or DS2.

 

[Silverfish]

Not what I meant, but when you're right, you're right.

 

[Silva]

DS3 in general isn't as well thought out as Bloodborne or DS2. Sulyvahn's probably the worst example, but Aldrich & Anri, Yhorm & Siegward, and the hollow lord plot as a whole all feel underbaked.

I agree it feels underbaked but that's due to (IMO) From "going Bloodborne" and inserting huge gaps in each of those threads to make them ambiguous like a fucking Roscharch on purpose. Only here it doesn't work and you end up with loose plot threads that don't get nowhere meaningful and don't form a cohesive whole.

DS1 was super straighforward giving you 90% of plot threads and leaving 10% missing for you to interpret.

Bloodborne gave you 70% and the other 30% you had to interpret.

Dark Souls 3 give you just 50% and the rest is up to you.

The first DLC does reveal he's from Ariandel, with his dad being a Corvian and his mom being the Birch Woman you find in the corner of the ice lake

Lol serious? Its obvious he is from Irithyll but rhe rest not so much. How did you come to this conclusion? Never heard of this.

 

[NJClaw]

The first DLC does reveal he's from Ariandel, with his dad being a Corvian and his mom being the Birch Woman you find in the corner of the ice lake

Lol serious? Its obvious he is from Irithyll but rhe rest not so much. How did you come to this conclusion? Never heard of this.

There's nothing left in the actual game, but there is this piece of unused (voiced) dialogue in the DLC's files:

"Where have you gone sweet child? It's cold outside. It's awfully cold. Where have you run off to? I'm here sweet child, right here. You're cold and you've no place to go."

There's also this other piece of (not voiced) text in the same files:

"What have you done with him! Give him back! Where have you hidden him? My dear, sweet child! I'll get you! You rotten kidnapper!"

Those same files also mention a "birch woman" NPC.

This prompted a conspiracy theory around the tree woman that guards the Snap Freeze sorcery actually being Sulyvahn's mother, since its description talks about him:

"One of the spells left behind by the young sorcerer Sulyvahn before leaving the Painted World. Creates a cloud of near-freezing mist.

Sulyvahn was born and raised inside the painting, yet had little use for his frigid homeland, since ha had not yet experienced loss."

 

[Silva]

The first DLC does reveal he's from Ariandel, with his dad being a Corvian and his mom being the Birch Woman you find in the corner of the ice lake

Lol serious? Its obvious he is from Irithyll but rhe rest not so much. How did you come to this conclusion? Never heard of this.

There's nothing left in the actual game, but there is this piece of unused (voiced) dialogue in the DLC's files:

"Where have you gone sweet child? It's cold outside. It's awfully cold. Where have you run off to? I'm here sweet child, right here. You're cold and you've no place to go."

There's also this other piece of (not voiced) text in the same files:

"What have you done with him! Give him back! Where have you hidden him? My dear, sweet child! I'll get you! You rotten kidnapper!"

Those same files also mention a "birch woman" NPC.

This prompted a conspiracy theory around the tree woman that guards the Snap Freeze sorcery actually being Sulyvahn's mother, since its description talks about him:

"One of the spells left behind by the young sorcerer Sulyvahn before leaving the Painted World. Creates a cloud of near-freezing mist.

Sulyvahn was born and raised inside the painting, yet had little use for his frigid homeland, since ha had not yet experienced loss."

Thanks for the info, but this is the kind of shit I'm talking about: a piece of lore that don't add nothing to the game. If there isn't solid links pointing to the fact that tree was Sullyvahn mother, then why put it in the game? Why make the bitch shout dramatically and hide that spell if it's meaningless in the end?

I'm replaying DS1 now, and arrived at the painted world of ariamis. And the pieces of lore here are much better communicated: an occult ember whose description says it was used in an attempt to depose the gods, the doll and a statue implying some aberration kid lived here that the gods tried to hide, etc. I makes clear that the painting world is used as a place where gods hide shit. The way this info is delivered is minimalist amd subtle, but never confusing. Any player with half a brain can have a fairly clear picture of it - if this was DS3 I bet we would have double number of lore pieces each with extremely vague descriptions that don't point to anywhere!

 

[NJClaw]

Thanks for the info, but this is the kind of shit I'm talking about: a piece of lore that don't add nothing to the game. If there isn't solid links pointing to the fact that tree was Sullyvahn mother, then why put it in the game? Why make the bitch shout dramatically and hide that spell if it's meaningless in the end?

I'm replaying DS1 now, and arrived at the painted world of ariamis. And the pieces of lore here are much better communicated: an occult ember whose description says it was used in an attempt to depose the gods, the doll and a statue implying some aberration kid lived here that the gods tried to hide, etc. I makes clear that the painting world is used as a place where gods hide shit. The way this info is delivered is minimalist amd subtle, but never confusing. Any player with half a brain can have a fairly clear picture of it - if this was DS3 I bet we would have double number of lore pieces each with extremely vague descriptions that don't point to anywhere!

I see your point, but I think you are just putting DS3 under much harsher scrutiny. In the specific case of this particular tree-woman, it's all cut content (except for the sorcery, but that tells nothing about her being Sulyvahn's mother), so it's not fair to compare it to actual content that made it to the released version of DS1. A more fair comparison would be, to remain within the painted world, the one with Shiva's unfinished quest: does it make sense that you can invade him there? No, but, just like the tree's dialogue, it's just cut content.

In my opinion, both games have various bits of lore with different levels of coherence. For comparative purposes, we can identify three macro-levels:
1 - Strongly coherent lore directly linked to the main quest: events and relations cited multiple times and clearly narrated, both in item's descriptions and with in-world elements, sometimes even through cutscenes and dialogue. To get these bits of lore you don't really have to "put the pieces together", because the game is as straightforward as possible in communicating them.
2 - Somewhat coherent lore indirectly linked to the main quest: events and relations loosely implied multiple times in a multitude of item's descriptions/in-world elements/dialogues or strongly cited just a couple of times. Here you have to put the pieces together, but the game gives you enough information to do so with a reasonable degree of certainty.
3 - Incoherent lore not linked to the main quest: events and relations loosely implied just a couple of times. It's impossible to obtain a clear definitive picture, because the bits of lore are too scattered or too vague.

Both games have examples of lore that fall in each of these categories, and it's not fair to compare stuff from the third group in a game with stuff from the second one in another. Maybe DS3 has more elements in the third group than its predecessor, but that's a natural consequence of being a sequel and a bigger game.

 

[Silva]

Replaying this and I'm finding the late half fairly good with all DLCs, well at least better than I remembered.

I mean, the initial sequence of High Wall > Settlement > Cathedral > Farron is still the most boring in the entire series, but from Irithyll forward things open up, specially if you take out the Dancer for Lothric castle. And the late maps are pretty good - Irithyll itself, Dungeon, Dragon Peak, etc.

Which also reminds that Grand Archives is a damn good level and soooooo much better than DS1 Duke Archives. Its spooky and has some share of long range crap but never let those kill suspenseful corners and melees.

 

[d1r]

I am near the end of the game in Cinders, the ringed city and final boss remaining. I want to say that with no difficulty modifiers, this is on the easier side of Souls experiences, but there's plenty of tools to make it way harder. I have been using the covenant that makes enemies 30% stronger for a good chunk of the game, and then often forgotten to turn it off for bosses. There's some busted stuff in there like the great swamp ring that summons a lot of fire pillars that easily stagger and uplift enemies, and the 60 faith lightning spears that knock a lot of enemies off their feet on top of dealing mad damage at close range. I'm running a rather unorthodox build that has mediocre HP and shit for stamina but decent tankiness and really good damage output. This has allowed me to face tank bosses and pop a rogue water and stamina regen items to focus on ending fights pretty quickly. The hardest boss so far has been Nameless King by a mile, taking 18 attempts while the vast majority required 1-3. I wonder if Gael or Midir will change that, or if these angels will have the highest kill count by the time I'm done with this DLC...

The painted world DLC was pretty lame and padded with enemies, but the bosses were very cool to make up for it. The first boss (apparently normally a Sif throwback) has been completely changed to feature major characters from DS1 instead. Had me yelling "HIM?!" by the end of it.

Can you use Invasion and Summoning in Cinders?

 

[Puukko]

I am near the end of the game in Cinders, the ringed city and final boss remaining. I want to say that with no difficulty modifiers, this is on the easier side of Souls experiences, but there's plenty of tools to make it way harder. I have been using the covenant that makes enemies 30% stronger for a good chunk of the game, and then often forgotten to turn it off for bosses. There's some busted stuff in there like the great swamp ring that summons a lot of fire pillars that easily stagger and uplift enemies, and the 60 faith lightning spears that knock a lot of enemies off their feet on top of dealing mad damage at close range. I'm running a rather unorthodox build that has mediocre HP and shit for stamina but decent tankiness and really good damage output. This has allowed me to face tank bosses and pop a rogue water and stamina regen items to focus on ending fights pretty quickly. The hardest boss so far has been Nameless King by a mile, taking 18 attempts while the vast majority required 1-3. I wonder if Gael or Midir will change that, or if these angels will have the highest kill count by the time I'm done with this DLC...

The painted world DLC was pretty lame and padded with enemies, but the bosses were very cool to make up for it. The first boss (apparently normally a Sif throwback) has been completely changed to feature major characters from DS1 instead. Had me yelling "HIM?!" by the end of it.

Can you use Invasion and Summoning in Cinders?

To my understanding it uses soft banning to do online content with other people running the mod. Going online with the mod enabled instantly bans you to my knowledge. I played through the game entirely solo.

 

[Silva]

 

[Silverfish]

Props to Jm for getting over his InfernoPlus assache.

 

[Silva]

In my opinion, both games have various bits of lore with different levels of coherence. For comparative purposes, we can identify three macro-levels:
1 - Strongly coherent lore directly linked to the main quest: events and relations cited multiple times and clearly narrated, both in item's descriptions and with in-world elements, sometimes even through cutscenes and dialogue. To get these bits of lore you don't really have to "put the pieces together", because the game is as straightforward as possible in communicating them.
2 - Somewhat coherent lore indirectly linked to the main quest: events and relations loosely implied multiple times in a multitude of item's descriptions/in-world elements/dialogues or strongly cited just a couple of times. Here you have to put the pieces together, but the game gives you enough information to do so with a reasonable degree of certainty.
3 - Incoherent lore not linked to the main quest: events and relations loosely implied just a couple of times. It's impossible to obtain a clear definitive picture, because the bits of lore are too scattered or too vague.

Both games have examples of lore that fall in each of these categories, and it's not fair to compare stuff from the third group in a game with stuff from the second one in another. Maybe DS3 has more elements in the third group than its predecessor, but that's a natural consequence of being a sequel and a bigger game.

The problem of DS3 is that it mixes parts of your number 3 (incoherent elements) with your number 1 (main quest and lore). Examples:

- Who is the first sage who convinced prince Lothric? Aldia, Sully or Crystal Bro? No one knows.
- What is Firelink Shrine and why it doesn't get that Ring of Fire in the sky lategame like Lothric Castle? Is it in another dimension? No one knows.
- What does that Ring of Fire in the sky even even means? No one knows.
- Where is Londor and what exactly are it's pilgrims to in Lothric? No one knows.
- What does Usurping the Fire means again?
- Why is hapenning a civil war in Lothric and who is Gertrude exactly?
- Who is the "angel" (serpent) that appeared to Gertrude?
- What is the Untended Graves, our future/past/paralel timeline? No one knows.
- What is the Deep, another instance of the Abyss or it's own thing? No one knows.
- What is the Profaned Flame and why it burned Yhorm's people? Is it another instance of the Abyss? An instance of the Chaos Flame? Something else? No one knows.
- What da fuck is Blood of the Wolf and what it means to partake in it? What is that gigantic wolf? No one knows.
- Who is Ludleth why is he "exiled"? Did he linked the Fire on it's own or is his narration unreliable? Why his guilty tone, is he the Soul Feeder mentioned in the Skull Eye ring? No one knows.
- Why the end of the Ringed City DLC shows a world in ashes going to the horizon, how does this relates to Lothric the original setting ot the game?
etc

Everything is just TOO VAGUE.

If DS1 was Myazaki replicating his childhood days when reading english books by filling small passages with his own imagination due to poor language proficiency, DS3 is adult Miyazaki arriving drunk at work on a monday and asking the team to rip pages out of the lore book on purpose. And then waking up sober and saying "Oh shit, I really said that?". I mean, I love the bases we have here, I really do. Londor questline is one of the coolest in the entire series for me (a land of hollows who stay conscious out of sheer discipline and wants to steal the Fire from the gods? BADASS!), the reenacment of the linking of the fire with the 5 lords is such a great idea, current Lord saying FUCK YOU to the Fire and a civil war erupting? Awesome! but come on, they didn't need to be THIS vague on everything else.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

still best RPG of 2020 for me

 

[Curratum]

Dark Souls 3 is the shittiest Souls game, go play something else you nerds!

 

[Verylittlefishes]

Dark Souls 3 is the shittiest Souls game, go play something else you nerds!

I've already replayed DS1 immediately after ((

 

[Silva]

I found an error/hole in the plot. Bear with me..

Have you ever asked yourselves what is Soul of Cinder doing in the intro? He seems to be dragging a corpse to a bonfire. But If so, where is that, which corpse it is and why is he doing it?

My first thought was that corpse was from another Ashen one, but since the bell just rang and the lords are away from their thrones, there shouldn't be any ashen ones on the kiln of first flame at this time.

Then I remembered the story about DS2 intro having nothing to do whatsoever with final game and being a left over of a previous project concept. And that something similar happened to ds3,

as there was this early concept in development where the player had the ability to create their own bonfires by dragging corpses to them and using the coiled sword. Here this vid shows it:





So, the Lord of Cinder in the intro references that, a concept that was cut later in development. Not only that but apparently the LoC armor was the starting one of the Knight in that stage. So, the intro was not originally about the LOC as we know it but about the player character. Why they let the cinematic as that is beyond me. Probably they didn't have time left, or simply found the imagery cool.


This only proves the Souls series, as great as it is, has its share of holes, half baked bits and left-over parts that don't make sense together.


P.S: notice the same intro shows the pilgrims approaching Lothric in Filianore Rest phase (the future) with the narration voice saying "in venturing north they found the truth of the old words: the lords go without thrones". I mean wut? Lords went without thrones a long time before this moment (in the past) and the pilgrims already had known that fact by then. So it doesn't make sense either, showing this is clearly another left-ovet part for some context that didn't make final game. But the devs probably thought it was okay cause no one would notice. Hehe

 

[Wunderbar]

I found an error/hole in the plot.

the whole game is one big plot hole.

 

[Gerrard]

Dark Souls 3 is the shittiest Souls game, go play something else you nerds!

Played Fallout 2 for the first time since I played it back in 2000.

I chose the first pre-gen with 9 STR and 10 END, just as a quick test run to check settings and resolution on the new Steam version.

Died at the end of the fucking temple of trials tutorial dungeon, because I missed the other guy SIX TIMES IN A ROW at 46% hit chance, and he hit me successfully 6 times in a row, for an average of 4 damage each hit.

Deleting this garbage and going back to playing 3D Fallouts, where your outcomes actually depend on what you do and how you play and not on pure dice roll autism. If you can still defend this sort of design philosophy in the current year, you're all irreparable autists and I'm just stopping to let you know that every single 3D Fallout game is vastly superior to this garbage, simply by virtue of NOT forcing your gorilla brute melee build character to die in the tutorial room, while doing unarmed combat.

You all have a good day now!

 

[The Jester]

Dark Souls 3 Born From the Ashes
https://www.nexusmods.com/darksouls3/mods/769?tab=description

Mod purpose is to make game significantly harder by adding a lot of enemies around the dark souls world, providing more build possibilities and balancing NG+7, new weapons and armors with brand new powerful skills and passives, better HUD and many more.

- more than 1000 enemies manually added and scattered around the world to boost the difficulty level
- some enemies buffed including bosses (Yhorm is not puzzle fight anymore)
- 28 armors with unique powerful passives and buffed defenses (keep in mind most of them are designed for NG+7 so they are kinda OP in NG, there are also untouched vanilla armors to play on NG if you want more challenge)
- a lot of new powerful weapon arts and different moves for some weapons
- new icons for weapons and armors
- new descriptions
- new HUD
- different music for some boss battles
- different covenants icons
- new weapons and armors (they are replaced with vanilla weapons and armors I never used)
- buffed rings (there are also rings that passively slowly restore FP and HP)
- NG+7 cycle balanced by buffing different armors, rings and weapons skills
- enemies draw distance extended to be more realistic and pleasing for eyes
- possibility to go to next NG cycle right from the first bonfire in shrine (after tutorial boss)

 

[NJClaw]

I'm playing for the first time with the Cinders mod, and I think anyone who enjoyed at least partially DS3 should try it. There are a lot of broken effects, but they only make the game more enjoyable. The enemy placement is very similar, but can still surprise you here and there. There aren't a lot of area changes, except for the fact that sometimes you can travel between areas that were previously disconnected, so it's not like you get a completely different experience, but I'm still having a blast.

 

[Perkel]

I found an error/hole in the plot. Bear with me..

Have you ever asked yourselves what is Soul of Cinder doing in the intro? He seems to be dragging a corpse to a bonfire. But If so, where is that, which corpse it is and why is he doing it?

My first thought was that corpse was from another Ashen one, but since the bell just rang and the lords are away from their thrones, there shouldn't be any ashen ones on the kiln of first flame at this time.

When you arrive at the Kiln of The First Flame it is pretty much end state for the world after who knows how much time passed before your last location and kiln. Regardless of ending you can figure out that this world can survive maybe one more of few times linking but after that it will either way die as when you link fire it doesn't even have power to consume you but barely burns on you.

It is not just places that are jumbled up in DS3 but time itself. As you play game you go back in time (Nameless King location) or into future (dark firelink shrine, Kiln of the first flame) or far far far far into future so much that you have literally end of the world (dlc ending).

 

[Perkel]

champion's ashes mod for DS3 adds BB weapons with full animations and trickweapon mechanics: