Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

D&D 5E Discussion

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,962
Watching a Dark Sun on 5E stream(don't remember the channel) : The party invented a "democratic" city in Athas, they had pronouns after their character name, SJW hairstyle on 2/3 of the party, the party gets a "desert ship" at lv 1.

Watching a Dark Sun on 2E stream(Lawful Stupid RPG playlist ) : The party is enslaved, only escapes cuz the caravan is attacked but they remain branded as slaves, they almost died on the first encounter, almost died from thirsty cuz the half giant gladiator "Rah" drink a lot of water...

I watched the 5E stream due curiosity on how 5E would handle a setting where everything is harsh...
To be fair its more about the DM playstyle.

I remember running a 5E campaign where the players where in a city in the middle of the jungle. I didnt give them kits and instead just had them roll money. Prices where jacked up because of the location, frontier merchant city with corrupted officials where the thieves guild ran pretty much everything. By the end of the first story they were struggling to afford a night in the inn. For the second session they couldnt afford food, were living on what the ranger could hunt or gather in the jungle, and sometimes it wasnt enough, so someone wouldnt get benefits from a long rest. They were driven to banditry outside the city.
They stood there for a few days, waiting on a caravan with few guards, one of them actually got sick, was basically useless in a fight. When they struck the first caravan they failed to gauge the strength of the guards and were forced to flee. Wounded, sick, undergeared, hungry, poor and treated as untrustworthy foreigners. They started working for a small time crime boss in the city for a few pennies, but they got a roof and a bed, and were fed every day. They slowly crawled out of the lowest of the low and became mayor players in the city politics before moving on to bigger things.

The problem isnt the system.
 

Larianshill

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Messages
2,107
Here's a weird question - how do you feel about graverobbing? A tomb is one of the most common dungeons. I don't use alignments, but apparently many people here do. Would a good character rob a sarcophagus to get a +2 sword? Can a paladin rob a crypt in Strahd's castle?

Now, personally, I think that a good character wouldn't rob a grave no matter how old it is, or what culture it belongs to. But I'm self-aware enough to know that I'm very autistic about burials, and not everyone shares my strong opinions regarding egyptian mummies.
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

Time Mage
Patron
Joined
Apr 30, 2020
Messages
3,292
Location
Arborea
I'm very into cock and ball torture
Here's a weird question - how do you feel about graverobbing? A tomb is one of the most common dungeons. I don't use alignments, but apparently many people here do. Would a good character rob a sarcophagus to get a +2 sword? Can a paladin rob a crypt in Strahd's castle?

Now, personally, I think that a good character wouldn't rob a grave no matter how old it is, or what culture it belongs to. But I'm self-aware enough to know that I'm very autistic about burials, and not everyone shares my strong opinions regarding egyptian mummies.

Completely fine for everyone who is not lawfull good or specifically believes in the deity in whose name the crypt was created.
And even for those, I would have them try to consult a divine guidance on wether they get emergency permissions to break the sanctity of the deads sleep in order to repurpose their tools for for the big quest.
Mostly because letting the party run a dungeon and keeping the one lawfull good player standing outside for hours is a bad time.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,502
Watching a Dark Sun on 5E stream(don't remember the channel) : The party invented a "democratic" city in Athas, they had pronouns after their character name, SJW hairstyle on 2/3 of the party, the party gets a "desert ship" at lv 1.

Watching a Dark Sun on 2E stream(Lawful Stupid RPG playlist ) : The party is enslaved, only escapes cuz the caravan is attacked but they remain branded as slaves, they almost died on the first encounter, almost died from thirsty cuz the half giant gladiator "Rah" drink a lot of water...

I watched the 5E stream due curiosity on how 5E would handle a setting where everything is harsh...
It's not a matter of rules, harsh 5E is completely possible, just blame the anglo saxon woke bulshit. Told you last time one of my player tried to install democracy in my primeval thule settting , he end up dead , his corpse dragged behind a warchariot around the city streets.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,502
Here's a weird question - how do you feel about graverobbing? A tomb is one of the most common dungeons. I don't use alignments, but apparently many people here do. Would a good character rob a sarcophagus to get a +2 sword? Can a paladin rob a crypt in Strahd's castle?

Now, personally, I think that a good character wouldn't rob a grave no matter how old it is, or what culture it belongs to. But I'm self-aware enough to know that I'm very autistic about burials, and not everyone shares my strong opinions regarding egyptian mummies.

Paladins arent lawful goody two shoes anymore in 5E , see paladin of conquest and paladin of vengeance. Anyway as snorkack says, they paid, you are their bitch now, so bend , take it and smile !
 

Larianshill

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Messages
2,107
Completely fine for everyone who is not lawfull good or specifically believes in the deity in whose name the crypt was created.
And even for those, I would have them try to consult a divine guidance on wether they get emergency permissions to break the sanctity of the deads sleep in order to repurpose their tools for for the big quest.
Mostly because letting the party run a dungeon and keeping the one lawfull good player standing outside for hours is a bad time.
Well, that just doesn't feel right.

If your butthurt continues for more than four hours, you're supposed to go to the doctor.
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

Time Mage
Patron
Joined
Apr 30, 2020
Messages
3,292
Location
Arborea
I'm very into cock and ball torture
Well, that just doesn't feel right.

If you are uncomfortable with it make the ghost of the tomb a neutral or friendly NPC, and have him/her give the players direct permission to kill the other inhabitants and loot everything for the greater good.
Grave robbery is a honored adventurer tradition, and a bad place for a DM to have weird moral fixations.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,502
Completely fine for everyone who is not lawfull good or specifically believes in the deity in whose name the crypt was created.
And even for those, I would have them try to consult a divine guidance on wether they get emergency permissions to break the sanctity of the deads sleep in order to repurpose their tools for for the big quest.
Mostly because letting the party run a dungeon and keeping the one lawfull good player standing outside for hours is a bad time.
Well, that just doesn't feel right.

If your butthurt continues for more than four hours, you're supposed to go to the doctor.
I am not butthurt in any way. You think really you could cause such an extreme reaction to anyone here ? No one really give a fuck about your life and paid hobby...An hobby you are apparently unfit for, as you dont even read the manuals from the edition, paladins arent lawful good, and even when they were you could argue its for the greater good in 99% of the case .A lawful good character can be played like a real bastard, lot of opportunities. Also free tip undeads does not heal from necrotic damage, and they are no longer immune to crits either. Who could have known , things are changing.
 

Snorkack

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
2,979
Location
Lower Bavaria
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Seriously though. The one thing about DnD that's stupider than Alignment is Vancian Magic a GM that demands his players always only act in accordance with their Alignment.
 

deuxhero

Arcane
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
11,985
Location
Flowery Land
Here's a weird question - how do you feel about graverobbing? A tomb is one of the most common dungeons. I don't use alignments, but apparently many people here do. Would a good character rob a sarcophagus to get a +2 sword? Can a paladin rob a crypt in Strahd's castle?

Now, personally, I think that a good character wouldn't rob a grave no matter how old it is, or what culture it belongs to. But I'm self-aware enough to know that I'm very autistic about burials, and not everyone shares my strong opinions regarding egyptian mummies.

Depends purely on how old the tomb is.
I checked New Republic law. Property claims are abandoned well shy of four millennia. As a result, I've filed a claim for this place, and now it's mine. I'd love to have you stick around, but your statue is right where the wife will want the entertainment center. You understand, don't you?

Aside from the argument that property claims have expired, it really depends on the setting.

Pathfinder managed to have an interesting and solid explanation for how theme park its setting is in the Mummy's Mask AP (highly mediocre after the excellent first module). The government of not-Egypt is getting a cut of all the tombs looted and the church of the death goddess has proclaimed (after some strong arming by the government) that the tombs are so old the deceased are all judged and no longer need the grave goods to help their passage to the afterlife so the PCs are free to take everything they can carry so long as they don't resort to flat out desecrating the tombs (scrapping gold plating off) to do it.

The easy way is to simply make whoever the tomb belonged to unquestionably evil. Most of them already have undead, so it's not as hard as it would seem.
 
Last edited:

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
17,072
Location
Frostfell
Can a paladin rob a crypt in Strahd's castle?

On 5E, I don't know, but on 2E where alignment is way more strongly enforced, in domains of dread - page 243, table 16, about suggested chances of drawing attention from the dark powers and corrupting PC's, grave robbing of evil enemies incurs in no risk of drawing attention of the dark powers, hence is safe to assume that would't be a evil act. However, if the crypt belongs to a good guy, there is 5% chance of drawing attention of evil powers. Note that the book suggests to the DM maintain it mysterious as possible.

. Told you last time one of my player tried to install democracy in my primeval thule settting , he end up dead , his corpse dragged behind a warchariot around the city streets.

Amazing.

I was curious about Dark Sun on 5E cuz I really believe that it can work with some alterations in rules. But 5E has a lot of rules which would be cool on Athas. Like Exhaustion rules in 6 levels. Heal on short rest, should be only possible if the party is not thirsty or starving.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,962
You literally killed your party purely on RNG? That's not good DMing or evidence a system isn't shit.
I didnt kill them. I had them build themselves from the ground up.

Getting adventuring gear makes everything super easy, take it away and watch them struggle to find the means to afford it.
 

Gyor

Savant
Joined
Dec 11, 2017
Messages
735
Controversial opinion, pure martial characters are stupid, it's like bringing a knife to a gun fight at low levels, at high levels its a knife at a nuke fight.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,502
You literally killed your party purely on RNG? That's not good DMing or evidence a system isn't shit.
I didnt kill them. I had them build themselves from the ground up.

Getting adventuring gear makes everything super easy, take it away and watch them struggle to find the means to afford it.
That's miser dming at its finest and completely unsuitable for 5E . There's classes more dependant on gear than the others. I cant imagine how fun it will be to play a rogue without his toolkit...
 

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
Patron
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
13,610
Location
Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
You literally killed your party purely on RNG? That's not good DMing or evidence a system isn't shit.
I didnt kill them. I had them build themselves from the ground up.

Getting adventuring gear makes everything super easy, take it away and watch them struggle to find the means to afford it.
That's miser dming at its finest and completely unsuitable for 5E . There's classes more dependant on gear than the others. I cant imagine how fun it will be to play a rogue without his toolkit...

Sneak, bitch!
 
Self-Ejected

Thac0

Time Mage
Patron
Joined
Apr 30, 2020
Messages
3,292
Location
Arborea
I'm very into cock and ball torture
That's miser dming at its finest and completely unsuitable for 5E . There's classes more dependant on gear than the others. I cant imagine how fun it will be to play a rogue without his toolkit...

But the classes that operate best gearless or with sticks and stones (monk above all, druid second probably, barbarian third) are not exactly top tier except moon druid.
If you are a bit lenient and let rogues lockpick without thief's tools and with a higher DC (or disadvantage but perpetual disadvantage is unfun due to many critical fumbles) and give the casters at least some material components and the fighters the lower end of the weapon progression then I don't really see a problem with that approach.
Imo even starting the party with 0 of everything in prison is fine, if the party is down for it. Just like Gothic, if you really start down in the dumps then the progress to becoming strong and respected feels much greater.
Also it rewards some classes heavily.

on what the ranger could hunt or gather in the jungle

This as an example will probably have been great for the ranger, a class that is suboptimal in raw 5e aswell.

They slowly crawled out of the lowest of the low and became mayor players in the city politics before moving on to bigger things.

And the most important part in the ascend was present aswell.

I see no problems with this DM style. Maybe the part with driven to banditry, that might not appeal to some players morally, but I assume that they had different options available to them, like enlisting in the military or asking a temple for aid.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,962
That's miser dming at its finest and completely unsuitable for 5E . There's classes more dependant on gear than the others. I cant imagine how fun it will be to play a rogue without his toolkit...
Imagine thinking class balance means anything in 5E. Want a weapon? Just pick out a pointy stick and pray you dont critically miss, it should be fine. Everybody has proficiency with simple weapons, you will still be outperforming cantrips most of the time.

Dont be so autistic.


I see no problems with this DM style. Maybe the part with driven to banditry, that might not appeal to some players morally, but I assume that they had different options available to them, like enlisting in the military or asking a temple for aid.
I didnt railroad them at any point. There were no npcs there to express their opinion or guide them either. They were on their own. And every choice they made carried a consequence that made sense. I like smart players and will punish stupidity.

Two of the players had just broken out of prison in their introductory story, one of them a warlock, the other a rogue so they were laying low, another one of the players was there on an undercover mission, son of an influential figure but needed to lay low and evaluate the situation in the city before his family mad a move to try and set a foothold there. The others were just interested in numbers for safety so they took them in. Dealing with the guard carried a lot of risks, and they had no reputation to speak of, so no standing to negotiate with them. The city watch was brutal and expedient, but there were too few of them. The city had been taken over by several gangs that were in "peace". Constantly scheming and trying to take down the others.

Overall the whole situation was pretty stacked against them. They managed to find someone influential enough to give them a leg up, but weak enough that they wouldnt have to fear him when they wanted to move on. They survived as a team, every encounter was dangerous, they experienced many ambushes through the whole thing, finding themselves split into two teams in different rooms, or sometimes in different parts of the battlefield, and having to figure out how to work with different party members to get ahead, it was pretty neat watching them grow from that.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,502
That's miser dming at its finest and completely unsuitable for 5E . There's classes more dependant on gear than the others. I cant imagine how fun it will be to play a rogue without his toolkit...

But the classes that operate best gearless or with sticks and stones (monk above all, druid second probably, barbarian third) are not exactly top tier except moon druid.
If you are a bit lenient and let rogues lockpick without thief's tools and with a higher DC (or disadvantage but perpetual disadvantage is unfun due to many critical fumbles) and give the casters at least some material components and the fighters the lower end of the weapon progression then I don't really see a problem with that approach.
Imo even starting the party with 0 of everything in prison is fine, if the party is down for it. Just like Gothic, if you really start down in the dumps then the progress to becoming strong and respected feels much greater.
Also it rewards some classes heavily.

on what the ranger could hunt or gather in the jungle

This as an example will probably have been great for the ranger, a class that is suboptimal in raw 5e aswell.

They slowly crawled out of the lowest of the low and became mayor players in the city politics before moving on to bigger things.

And the most important part in the ascend was present aswell.

I see no problems with this DM style. Maybe the part with driven to banditry, that might not appeal to some players morally, but I assume that they had different options available to them, like enlisting in the military or asking a temple for aid.

Indeed monks arent top tier, ranger can still be good however, then you have two situations, either the players are aware this will be a miser settings thus chose their class accordingly and completly circumvent this, or they dont and are completely shafted and miserable. I dont think the pally is getting his heavy armor there , i dont like that way to play its frustrating and unfun if youa re not warned before. Pretty similar to lacrymas setting "i dont like magic", here it's i dont like gear.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,962
Indeed monks arent top tier, ranger can still be good however, then you have two situations, either the players are aware this will be a miser settings thus chose their class accordingly and completly circumvent this, or they dont and are completely shafted and miserable. I dont think the pally is getting his heavy armor there ,

The fuck is your problem? Not starting with gear doesnt mean you cant get it. The fighter eventually had his full set of armor and a couple magical toys, the warlock found himself a few invocations that arent on the book, lovecraft themed stuff. The rogue became wealthy enough that he had no use for money, spending a large part of it on poisons and specialized tools.

I dont like that way to play its frustrating and unfun if youa re not warned before.
Do you need trigger warnings too? Do you need your DM to kiss you good night before you can sleep? Do you get anxiety attacks if your character gets killed?
Fucking hell man, go back to reddit.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,502
Indeed monks arent top tier, ranger can still be good however, then you have two situations, either the players are aware this will be a miser settings thus chose their class accordingly and completly circumvent this, or they dont and are completely shafted and miserable. I dont think the pally is getting his heavy armor there ,

The fuck is your problem? Not starting with gear doesnt mean you cant get it. The fighter eventually had his full set of armor and a couple magical toys, the warlock found himself a few invocations that arent on the book, lovecraft themed stuff. The rogue became wealthy enough that he had no use for money, spending a large part of it on poisons and specialized tools.

I dont like that way to play its frustrating and unfun if youa re not warned before.
Do you need trigger warnings too? Do you need your DM to kiss you good night before you can sleep? Do you get anxiety attacks if your character gets killed?
Fucking hell man, go back to reddit.
You get rules with starting gear, amount of gold to roll , basic equipment for each classes for a reason you dont modifiy game balance on a whim like this , especially not before warning players.Game was playtested for months and you dont change it just cause of an overinflated ego That's exactly the same as restricting magic. So yes theye venutally get it, but they could as well miserably fail too thanks to this adjustment .
Dont care about character death and such , no one does, but shitty homebrewing and skilless Dm yes that bothers me.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,962
they could as well miserably fail too thanks to this adjustment .
Thats the idea, i want the possibility of failure to be there. I make my campaigns challenging. I enjoy challenging my players on different levels, be it with resource scarcity, testing loyalties, testing morals, testing mettle, challenging them in an strategical and a tactical layer. I encourage power builds. I dont bitch about minmaxing, their "min" will make them sweat, and their max will make them shine all the brighter. I encourage team play and i want my table to be memorable.

I can tell you this much, nobody remembers generic dungeon romps and that job they did for that noble that one time that ended up with them getting a +1 sword. Nobody remembers the generic fight against orcs to get their level up to 4.

They grow to love these characters, because i offer development outside the books they also develop their characters in very personal ways.
I remember one of my players in a villain campaign being a drow warlock, he once got his hands on a divine scroll, one that allowed him to attune to the source of destruction. later in the campaign it seemed like there would be a team wipe, one was already bleeding out, the others werent faring much better and he knew neither math nor luck was on their side that night.
He suddenly remembered the scroll (I actually had forgotten he had it). He read it in a hurry it turned him into an avatar of the void, an entity that would swallow and turn everything into nothing by merely focusing on it. He saved their lives that night.

Once it was done and the power of the spell ran out he found out everything he owned got destroyed, his very soul corrupted. He didnt care, he loved it. He devoted his life to follow this law of the void. His powers mutated to reflect it. This became the source of adventure hooks as anything he could dig up on this was explored. And this was just one of the characters in the campaign.
You had a half-vampire that only wanted power finding his heart and giving up said power to preserve the life of a child, out of regret for having sacrificed his own son years before. He learned to harness the power of blood, his spell list added several spellls that followed that theme.
You had a yuan ti whose sole mission in life was making his own species thrive in the surface betray his principles only to save his skin, this became his shame. He begun to unify the tribes after that.

Their nemesis, was just some very high level drow assassin they came to blow with a few times before things started getting personal. Ended up with one of the players (The vampire) losing both his wife (Sweet woman, ugly but kind, he loved her as one would a pet. And he found her gutted on his bed) and his lover (An dragon empress) and shit got very personal inside the game.
The players struck back, killing the drows husband. And it went downhill from there. Until at the very last story, while they were trying to save everyone they cared about from a world that was about to be destroyed and remade that this fucker showed up and they had their final fight, with only minutes to spare. As one of the player could not act, he could only watch helplessly as he made rolls to keep the portal from which they would flee open, the possibility of them being stuck there if he failed very real (Dude eventually failed, they had to find another way, getting into an area sealed by the gods, with enemies with a CR above 20.

The players still talk about that campaign to this very day.

If you arent homebrewing you arent really DMing.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,502
Thats a good campaign as far i can see , but there's homebrewing where you add things and fun and there's castrating homebrewing. Most often what i see are restrictions , hindering, removing things, implementing "cool ideas" like injuries maiming and fumbles in a game not designed for it. At least you did not go overboard .
I have nothing against failure , but if the guy fails because his ac is too low as he should have heavy armor from the start. I dont think thats fair.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom