Development Info Coreplay Issues Statement in Response to bitComposer Interview

[Cosmo]

Loading the risk of failure onto the shoulders of enthusiastic fans, but not sharing the profit is just fundamentally wrong in my book.

But backers get games, and making the game exist (as opposed to NOTHING) is a reward in and unto itself. Plus surely by now you must have made a thorough assessment of the expenses that a reboot of CC would require, so that you wouldn't be forced to be "dishonest" in your funding goal.
Or maybe you could try and recoup your losses and present something based on your building tools, some sort of RPG maker for the 3.5 open licence ruleset (surely that must sounds stupid, but think about it : that's exactly what the ToEE community missed for so many years, and having a modern version of FRUA ? Hell yeah !!)...

Anyway, guess i'm not ready to let that one go yet.

 

[kaizoku]

A cool thing to do could be making a combat arena type of game and sell it for $5 or $10.

This would considerably limit the game scope level allowing you to put a game out there, create PR, get a grasp of the fanbase size, and please combatfags.

 

[Overboard]

and please combatfags.

Hey hey hey, give them some realistic goals, please!

 

[cherry blossom]

I personally still don't agree with using KS to fund the complete development of a game. Loading the risk of failure onto the shoulders of enthusiastic fans, but not sharing the profit is just fundamentally wrong in my book.

However, we tried everything to refund bitComposer their money to make a completion and release of the game possibly. In the meeting at the end of May 2013, we almost had a deal with them. Unfortunately, for some reasons that we still don't know nor understand, bitComposer refused to sign this agreement at the end of the day. Retrospectively, this day was the crucial moment regarding the future of 'Chaos Chronicles'. Meanwhile, I assume that bitComposer just wanted to shift the outcome of this project/investment to the next financial period - that would explain why they were trying to delay a final agreement.

As I remember it based on bitComposer's account, CorePlay offered to refund bitComposer's money to buy their way out of their contractual obligations to bitComposer, after bitComposer have already funded and helped with the development of Chaos Chronicles ie. Coreplay trying to impose a one-way deal to revoke or revise a contract they had already signed.

Now I don't know the details of the contract but I would expect a number of things commonplace to the publisher model: partial, if not full rights to the game; a cut on the profit, possibly the lion's share of it; possibly the right to impose a monetization model -as can be gleamed from JA:BiA and its many DLCs- and it is likely that those would only be the starters. Not gonna waste time arguing whether any of that is fair or just; that is the basic "take it or leave it" publisher model and the reason why publishers fund games in the first place ie. they are in it for the money, not for charity.

Had bitComposer accepted this offer to revoke or revise the initial contract and be refunded the money they have given to CorePlay for Chaos Chronicles, that would basically diminish their role as a publisher and negate the reason they exist at all, as they would be bereft of future financial gain which is the reason they entered a contract in the first place; that Chaos Chronicles would sell so that they would profit off of the principal they invested in CorePlay. Effectively, with the contract revoked or revised to CorePlay's satisfaction, bitComposer would be lowered to a position no different than anyone who simply loaned you money without asking anything in return. For a charitable person with just a lot of money to give, that might not be a problem. For a publisher, that is money, a finite resource, that could have been better spent on a developer who won't try to weasel their way out of their contractual obligations and net you more money in return.

So it's not simply a matter of a fixed amount of money being returned to bitComposer. The money bitComposer gave to CorePlay is an investment, a "product" that CorePlay would use to develop Chaos Chronicles with so that bitComposer would profit off of the result. What CorePlay instead did was to use that product to develop Chaos Chronicles with just the same and then at some point decide that they want all the profit to themselves (or more specifically, they didn't want bitComposer to get a share) and so simply return the product itself to bitComposer once they were done with it.

If you call yourself a publisher and you accept such a deal, you are nothing but a damn fool and what is to stop every other developer from resorting to the same tactic? (I understand there is some more subtext to it all involving deadlines but so far, bitComposer's versions of events have been more forthcoming and reassuring with details compared to CorePlay's vague and incomplete blurbs).

Furthermore, once again according to bitComposer's account of the events, CorePlay wanted their revised version of contract (to revoke the old one) be signed in no time and unconditionally, which bitComposer claim to have replied that they would need their legal team to go over it and that it would take time but CorePlay couldn't be arsed to spend any time waiting for legal trivialities -so much so they didn't even attend a prescheduled meeting- while trying to have their own way imposed without question, with the additional information that this fallout started when a new shareholder lawyer of CorePlay came into the picture. Very shady business, if you ask me.

I wanted Chaos Chronicles to be real; it was easily the best looking 3D isometric game I've ever seen and the dev-blog was full of promising information but I have serious doubts that the devs have a firm grasp the way things work in the business world and think that they were acting on ill-advise from the said shareholder.

Another sad thing is that the particular way this whole deal went down is a stain on CorePlay's record. Even if I were a massive publisher with loads of money to fund any type of game project I personally liked, I would be wary of giving a single dime to CorePlay for how could I trust that they will not try to work their way around and ditch me as well once they felt confident about it? I would personally put some effort into seeing them burn if they tried to screw me like that.



BUT, I would totally support a Kickstarter. Nothing wrong with it. It's a clear agreement with no promise of profits or financial investment. Do it, faggots!

 

[Stabwound]

Frankly, this is a "he said, she said" thing now, and as much as I want this game and think HobGoblin42 is a cool guy, Coreplay haven't exactly instilled any kind of confidence that they could release a game. This whole story is probably not even known outside of this website and maybe rpgwatch (but then again, the game itself probably isn't either) but I sure wouldn't feel confident giving them anything in a kickstarter campaign. No offense to any Coreplay employees here.

 

[Grunker]

for some reasons that we still don't know nor understand, bitComposer refused to sign this agreement at the end of the day.

See, stuff like this is why some people raise their eye-brows at your calls for justice. bitComposer has stated on 4 different occasions that they obviously couldn't just sign an agreement without having their lawyers look at it. That seems fair, yet you refused. Now you come here stating, again, that bC "for some reason" wouldn't sign then and there, when they've plainly explained multiple times why.

I love you guys, but shit like this frankly makes it seem like you're the ones who are completely unwilling to negotiate. Couple this with the fact that bC still want the game made and you keep declaring it dead, and I hope you can at least partly understand why people are losing faith in you.

As far as I am concerned, both you and bC are failing the fans big time, and I am disappointed in you both. I hope you are both aware that your audience is narrow and you can only afford so many of these disappointments.

No matter what I wish you loads of good luck. I hope your next project won't disappoint.

 

[cherry blossom]

I have a suspicion that this new shareholder/investor/lawyer seems to be the one handling the business end of things and is an incompetent greedy moron who didn't communicate what was going on and the viable options at hand to the dev-team with enough clarity. For instance, in their statement in response to bitComposer's Codex interview, Coreplay says that:

In December 2012 they asked for a further ‘Chaos Chronicles’ milestone, and announced the payment of EUR 45,000.- for it. But after the milestone had been delivered, payment was refused for no reason.

In that same tone of cluelessness while also pointing out that:

Because of the grave differences as to the further development of the game ‘Chaos Chronicles’ and because of bitComposer’s non-payment of their contractual obligations, we had no other choice but to give notice on the contract with bitComposer in February 2013.

In complete contradiction to bitComposer in the interview, according to whom their new shareholder/investor/lawyer was stirring up shit trying to revoke the very same contract that Coreplay complains about not being fulfilled:

The dispute started at the beginning of December 2012, when a Coreplay lawyer and investor presented a completely new contract, which was quite different from the original terms to which we had agreed ... While Coreplay and their investors were ready to increase the budget from their side, they were not able to present a new milestone and budget plan showing the additional features they wanted to include. On the other hand, Coreplay did not match the originally scheduled milestones, and because of this uncertainty, we were not able to continue from our side

So there seems to be a LOT of confusion on the dev-team's part about what happened and why.

However, we also cannot ignore Coreplay's claim that:

Furthermore, bitComposer did not pay the remaining fee for additional work and an Add-On for the game ‘Jagged Alliance: Crossfire‘, which Coreplay had been developing for bitComposer.

Which is downright scumbaggery unless the payment was contractually tied to conditions that were also not fulfilled by Coreplay though I'd find that hard to believe as "additional work" (which I assume must be DLCs) and a stand-alone expansion are serious work to do based on merely conditional payments.

 

[Metro]

 

[drae]

See, stuff like this is why some people raise their eye-brows at your calls for justice. bitComposer has stated on 4 different occasions that they obviously couldn't just sign an agreement without having their lawyers look at it. That seems fair, yet you refused. Now you come here stating, again, that bC "for some reason" wouldn't sign then and there, when they've plainly explained multiple times why.

I love you guys, but shit like this frankly makes it seem like you're the ones who are completely unwilling to negotiate. Couple this with the fact that bC still want the game made and you keep declaring it dead, and I hope you can at least partly understand why people are losing faith in you.

As far as I am concerned, both you and bC are failing the fans big time, and I am disappointed in you both. I hope you are both aware that your audience is narrow and you can only afford so many of these disappointments.

 

[Excommunicator]

I personally still don't agree with using KS to fund the complete development of a game. Loading the risk of failure onto the shoulders of enthusiastic fans, but not sharing the profit is just fundamentally wrong in my book.

However, we tried everything to refund bitComposer their money to make a completion and release of the game possibly. In the meeting at the end of May 2013, we almost had a deal with them. Unfortunately, for some reasons that we still don't know nor understand, bitComposer refused to sign this agreement at the end of the day. Retrospectively, this day was the crucial moment regarding the future of 'Chaos Chronicles'. Meanwhile, I assume that bitComposer just wanted to shift the outcome of this project/investment to the next financial period - that would explain why they were trying to delay a final agreement.

Hobgoblin needs to confirm whether or not the refund deal included compensation for the IP rights and the share of the profits that bitComposer is entitled to. If the intent was that they would give up those rights for free then someone has no understanding of business whatsoever.

 

[cherry blossom]

Doesn't matter even if they offered compensation, bitComposer had every right to turn it down. I know I would if I were the publisher. If you were going to try to bail out of a contract, you shouldn't agree to it in the first place or make a damn good offer to do so. And mere compensation wouldn't cut it.

 

[Excommunicator]

Yes it matters. I'm not debating the rights of bitComposer. I want to know the business savviness of CorePlay and what sort of offer they thought was reasonable to make.

If they didn't offer to pay for the rights, then I wouldn't trust these people with money or to run a business properly.

 

[Overboard]

Why does this animu newfag sound exactly like the animu newfag who posted rubbish at the start of this thread and got shot down?

 

[HobGoblin42]

for some reasons that we still don't know nor understand, bitComposer refused to sign this agreement at the end of the day.

See, stuff like this is why some people raise their eye-brows at your calls for justice. bitComposer has stated on 4 different occasions that they obviously couldn't just sign an agreement without having their lawyers look at it. That seems fair, yet you refused. Now you come here stating, again, that bC "for some reason" wouldn't sign then and there, when they've plainly explained multiple times why.

I love you guys, but shit like this frankly makes it seem like you're the ones who are completely unwilling to negotiate. Couple this with the fact that bC still want the game made and you keep declaring it dead, and I hope you can at least partly understand why people are losing faith in you.

Grunker, I lost my company, I lost my most favorite project, I lost a lot of money, I lost all the time and energy I'd invested into CC during the last 3 years (beside my regular time, I worked on it almost every weekend).

So, do you really think I haven't been trying to find a solution to get this game on the market?
Believe me I did try, and as I already stated: the negotiations end of May were the last hope for this project. Since then, all agreements and arrangements, that we made in this contract draft, have been withdrawn by bc. Basically, every small progress of the last 8 months dissolved. At the end, it was legally and financially impossible to complete this project because the sketchy legal situation with bc prevented any further investment.
Like I said, there was final contract draft on the table (the result of a 5 hour meeting). A draft that has been modified and evaluated by both parties (including their laywers). I still don't really understand why bc aborted the negotiations back then, but retrospectively this was the point when Chaos Chronicles got dumped.

 

[Grunker]

Hey man, I'm not accusing you OR bC of anything. I don't think anyone on the outside has enough information to be arbiters here. I'm trying to tell you that you and bC have directly contradictory versions, and that we have no way to determine a fair version. When you flat-out ignore their version as if they hadn't given one, eye-brows raise. When bC keeps calling for meetings and you say "game is dead", people wonder.

At the end of the day, what matters to your fans is the result, and you and bC did not deliver. It matters little who said what and why at this point.

When I wished you luck, I meant it.

 

[Jack Dandy]

Reading this thread is making me feel like shit. I wish there was something we could do.

 

[fanta]

I lost my company, I lost my most favorite project, I lost a lot of money, I lost all the time and energy I'd invested into CC during the last 3 years (beside my regular time, I worked on it almost every weekend)

Take my Brofist at least.

 

[kaizoku]

HobGoblin42

can you tell us what are your plans?


Will you be doing some casual games for living and start working on a cRPG part-time?

 

[Humanity has risen!]

He has been too disheartened to reveal he has been working on the 3DS version of Just Dance 5.

 

[Excommunicator]

Grunker, I lost my company, I lost my most favorite project, I lost a lot of money, I lost all the time and energy I'd invested into CC during the last 3 years (beside my regular time, I worked on it almost every weekend).

If it really matters you keep fighting for it. There are always additional options to consider. Eventually you will have a breakthrough.

 

[Lockkaliber]

Look at all the holier than thou faggots in this thread. Look at them.

 

[kaizoku]

this has been such a long story that I have forgotten where the showstopper really is at?

is this a matter of money? I mean, could this be solved with money? How much and to whom?

or is this an issue of IP ownership?
for example, both parties claim ownership majority of the IP and no one is willing to budge on that?

 

[AbounI]

So Coreplay collaborators lost their jobs (and project) too?Think about them

Feel so bad for each & everyone

 

[Stabwound]

Yeah, regardless of anything else, I do feel bad for these guys. They had their hearts in the right place and seemed like true bros. I can wish ill will on someone like Hepler, but these dudes didn't deserve to be dicked over regardless of how badly their project manager was. (no offense, I'm not even sure of what HobGob's role was overall)

 

[FeelTheRads]

So which one of those is hobbro?

By the way, their collection is so much better than that chick from MMX who boasted some dvd-cased games fresh off ebay.