Vapourware Codexian Game Development Thread

[PapaPetro]

Demon's Souls to my Armored Core

I'd play the shit out of Armored Demon's Core

 

[Twiglard]

Here are my current plans for implementing lighting. The UI work for adding and editing lights is already done, just need to add and debug serializing them. So almost all prerequisites are complete. I'm very *not* confident about writing the rendering code (because even rendering multiple Z levels correctly, is non-trivial, not to mention this) but the anticipation of doing it is almost over, just half a day of coding away.

I'm discussing this on IRC with a few other Codexers (kudos to Norfleet) so let me borrow the complete description of dilemmas and plans for the implementation.

13:40 <twig> there are 2 ways to do lighting
13:40 <twig> #1 is to have 2 render targets: A and B
13:42 <twig> clear A. render light to A with no occlusion. occlude the light by drawing all obstacles
             toward infinity. see: https://i.imgur.com/cF5fAx5.png
13:42 <twig> then, accumulate A into B by using the GL_ONE, GL_ONE blend function
13:42 <twig> do the same for all other lights
13:42 <twig> finally, draw B as the lightmap
13:43 <twig> that's rather straightforward
13:43 <twig> solution #2 one is a more clever, because it only works in 2D
13:44 <twig> for the former way -- you have to switch rendertargets (which is expensive) to blend A to B
13:44 <twig> this has to be done for *each* light
13:45 <twig> and this is the second way, this is the most complete description:
             https://github.com/mattdesl/lwjgl-basics/wiki/2D-Pixel-Perfect-Shadows
13:46 <twig> first, I don't understand the math behind it so debugging intermediate steps will be difficult
13:47 <twig> second, there's some criticism posted online that it has more inaccuracy because the lightmap is always of limited size but the method assumes that circles are 'real' and continuous (and in traditional GPU graphics they never are)
13:48 <twig> but it can be done without switching GPU state as much as the first approach
13:48 <twig> no switching rendertargets
13:49 <twig> it can be done using a uniform and branching in the shader with multiple draw calls¹, which is relatively cheap [...]
13:51 <twig> switching rendertargets per light is actually very expensive
13:52 <twig> it's one of the most expensive GPU state changes
13:52 <twig> and state changes are what kills GPU performance

¹ No swapping FBOs when using two rendertargets, each one being written to only optionally, depending only on a uniform makes branching cheap.

Any comments? If you're implementing per-pixel lighting in a 2D isometric game, which solution are *you* using?

 

[Twiglard]

I also have some plans on making a knowledge database, a Prolog inference engine with a custom DSL, and some Lisp-style declarative programming to hopefully implement better procedural generation than existing games have. With that approach, procgen can be more than a sum of its randomizations, because they can work together by constraining each other.

I don't think procedural quests are bad per se. What is bad is having an unlimited number of them. Games with grinding infinite quests are designed so that you may sometimes like a quest (in actuality about 2% of the time). This is demoralizing because it doesn't value the player's time. If a game has 20 quests for 5 quest givers in total, you're meant to like that which was actually generated for you in a playthrough. A time-limited playthrough can have an act structure. This is why Anomaly's procedural quests don't work but SoC's procedural quests are fun to actually play despite being extremely simplistic.

 

[Tavernking]

I don't think people realise how much an exercise in writing CRPG development is. I've spent ages writing the dialogue scripts and I'm only at 23,000 words for maybe 5-10% of the game so far. Age of Decadence was 520,000 words, Baldurs Gate was supposedly 1,000,000 words before the expansion packs. Got a long way to go.

The crazy thing? 'The average word count for adult fiction is between 70,000 to 120,000 words'. By the time I'm done, I would have written several books.

 

[Justinian]

How long does itch.io take to index a game? I submitted it a week ago and it's still not there.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

I don't think people realise how much an exercise in writing CRPG development is. I've spent ages writing the dialogue scripts and I'm only at 23,000 words for maybe 5-10% of the game so far. Age of Decadence was 520,000 words, Baldurs Gate was supposedly 1,000,000 words before the expansion packs. Got a long way to go.

The crazy thing? 'The average word count for adult fiction is between 70,000 to 120,000 words'. By the time I'm done, I would have written several books.

I don't think anyone cares about the word count apart from a few curious players, and the developers who might want to localize their game and have to pay a fixed amount per word.

Many amateurs think that more words == a better story, and then we get Numanuma with ~1,500,000 words, and it would benefit from axing at least half of them.

 

[Kev Inkline]

I don't think people realise how much an exercise in writing CRPG development is. I've spent ages writing the dialogue scripts and I'm only at 23,000 words for maybe 5-10% of the game so far. Age of Decadence was 520,000 words, Baldurs Gate was supposedly 1,000,000 words before the expansion packs. Got a long way to go.

The crazy thing? 'The average word count for adult fiction is between 70,000 to 120,000 words'. By the time I'm done, I would have written several books.

"More words than the Bible!"

 

[The_Sloth_Sleeps]

I don't think people realise how much an exercise in writing CRPG development is. I've spent ages writing the dialogue scripts and I'm only at 23,000 words for maybe 5-10% of the game so far. Age of Decadence was 520,000 words, Baldurs Gate was supposedly 1,000,000 words before the expansion packs. Got a long way to go.

The crazy thing? 'The average word count for adult fiction is between 70,000 to 120,000 words'. By the time I'm done, I would have written several books.

Yes, for that reason I am only focusing on producing only one main quest line. I feel its simply too complex if I deviate. Of course there will be lots of "options" in how you play along the way, but the creative dialogues are only based in the main story.

 

[Zanzoken]

I don't think people realise how much an exercise in writing CRPG development is. I've spent ages writing the dialogue scripts and I'm only at 23,000 words for maybe 5-10% of the game so far. Age of Decadence was 520,000 words, Baldurs Gate was supposedly 1,000,000 words before the expansion packs. Got a long way to go.

The crazy thing? 'The average word count for adult fiction is between 70,000 to 120,000 words'. By the time I'm done, I would have written several books.

I don't think anyone cares about the word count apart from a few curious players, and the developers who might want to localize their game and have to pay a fixed amount per word.

Many amateurs think that more words == a better story, and then we get Numanuma with ~1,500,000 words, and it would benefit from axing at least half of them.

I remember playing Pillars of Eternity for the first time, and being greeted by this clumsy word salad in the opening crawl.

Spoiler

I knew right there that the story was probably not going to be worth a fuck. Good writing is not about how much you can add... it's about how much you can take away.

 

[Tavernking]

Many amateurs think that more words == a better story, and then we get Numanuma with ~1,500,000 words, and it would benefit from axing at least half of them.

I knew right there that the story was probably not going to be worth a fuck. Good writing is not about how much you can add... it's about how much you can take away.

Yeah I know, I'm doing my best to keep it short and brief. I hate long-winded dialogues and exposition dumps more than most, believe me. But it still ends up being huge. For example, a branching dialogue tree with a mercenary NPC that insults your strength, makes you pass some strength checks to talk to him, can tell you where he's from and what he's doing here, and discuss how much it costs to hire him and some skill checks to lower his price... that all adds up to 900 words alone!

 

[Abu Antar]

zwanzig_zwoelf
Could I get five tags for the upcoming rpgs thread listing?

 

[CryptRat]

zwanzig_zwoelf
Could I get five tags for the upcoming rpgs thread listing?

I'd say : Dungeon Crawler, Party-based, Turn-based, Permadeath, Wizardry IV

 

[Abu Antar]

zwanzig_zwoelf
Could I get five tags for the upcoming rpgs thread listing?

I'd say : Dungeon Crawler, Party-based, Turn-based, Permadeath, Wizardry IV

I'll go with Monochrome Graphics instead of Wizardry IV, but the others seem perfect.

 

[Zed]

I came across your game (on Steam) via non-codex sources and went "wait isn't that ZZs game."
The hype is real! You better deliver

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

zwanzig_zwoelf
Could I get five tags for the upcoming rpgs thread listing?

I'd say what CryptRat listed is perfect. Thanks CryptRat!

I came across your game (on Steam) via non-codex sources and went "wait isn't that ZZs game."
The hype is real! You better deliver

I don't know if it's experimental nature will click for most fans of the genre, but there's only one way to find out.

Many amateurs think that more words == a better story, and then we get Numanuma with ~1,500,000 words, and it would benefit from axing at least half of them.

I knew right there that the story was probably not going to be worth a fuck. Good writing is not about how much you can add... it's about how much you can take away.

Yeah I know, I'm doing my best to keep it short and brief. I hate long-winded dialogues and exposition dumps more than most, believe me. But it still ends up being huge. For example, a branching dialogue tree with a mercenary NPC that insults your strength, makes you pass some strength checks to talk to him, can tell you where he's from and what he's doing here, and discuss how much it costs to hire him and some skill checks to lower his price... that all adds up to 900 words alone!

Oh yeah, reactivity and branches add a lot. My last RPG (Ringlorn Saga) has about 7,000 words and even without dialogue options, adding reactions like friendly NPCs getting scared or telling you to fuck off when you approach them with a weapon ready added quite a bit of text. There was a decent number of NPCs (~20 in the entire game), but the number was small enough to the point where giving everyone a single generic line would ruin the immersion.

 

[Tweed]

I don't think people realise how much an exercise in writing CRPG development is. I've spent ages writing the dialogue scripts and I'm only at 23,000 words for maybe 5-10% of the game so far. Age of Decadence was 520,000 words, Baldurs Gate was supposedly 1,000,000 words before the expansion packs. Got a long way to go.

The crazy thing? 'The average word count for adult fiction is between 70,000 to 120,000 words'. By the time I'm done, I would have written several books.

I don't think anyone cares about the word count apart from a few curious players, and the developers who might want to localize their game and have to pay a fixed amount per word.

Many amateurs think that more words == a better story, and then we get Numanuma with ~1,500,000 words, and it would benefit from axing at least half of them.

I remember playing Pillars of Eternity for the first time, and being greeted by this clumsy word salad in the opening crawl.

Spoiler

I knew right there that the story was probably not going to be worth a fuck. Good writing is not about how much you can add... it's about how much you can take away.

If you write enough words everyone will be too busy scanning over them to realize that there's no story.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

I don't think people realise how much an exercise in writing CRPG development is. I've spent ages writing the dialogue scripts and I'm only at 23,000 words for maybe 5-10% of the game so far. Age of Decadence was 520,000 words, Baldurs Gate was supposedly 1,000,000 words before the expansion packs. Got a long way to go.

The crazy thing? 'The average word count for adult fiction is between 70,000 to 120,000 words'. By the time I'm done, I would have written several books.

I don't think anyone cares about the word count apart from a few curious players, and the developers who might want to localize their game and have to pay a fixed amount per word.

Many amateurs think that more words == a better story, and then we get Numanuma with ~1,500,000 words, and it would benefit from axing at least half of them.

I remember playing Pillars of Eternity for the first time, and being greeted by this clumsy word salad in the opening crawl.

Spoiler

I knew right there that the story was probably not going to be worth a fuck. Good writing is not about how much you can add... it's about how much you can take away.

If you write enough words everyone will be too busy scanning over them to realize that there's no story.

The real story was the friends we fucked made along the way!

 

[Jarmaro]

Is there a list of Codex games that actually came out?

 

[Tyranicon]

zwanzig_zwoelf

Yes, join the dark side.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

zwanzig_zwoelf

View attachment 36747





Yes, join the dark side.

This is set because certain sprites are somewhat revealing and there are a few mentions of some dark shit, like monsters using people as their playthings before killing them off.

 

[Nathaniel3W]

7 hours until I launch Septaroad Voyager. I need to do something besides sit here in front of my computer.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Finally added treasure chests with 7 trap types and 8 reward types (16 if you treat cursed items as separate types). Feels good, as it's the only way to grow your characters outside of combat.

 

[Zanzoken]

That pixel art is only two colors right? It's a fantastic art style... very minimal but also packed with detail at the same time.

 

[Justinian]

I came across your game (on Steam) via non-codex sources and went "wait isn't that ZZs game."

The hype is real! You better deliver

I don't know if it's experimental nature will click for most fans of the genre, but there's only one way to find out.

I'm a big fan of the genre but gameplay wise blobbers peaked with Infinite Adventures IMO. Something with better graphics might come out but I don't think it'll be outdone in terms of character tinkering.

So something more experimental is a welcomed change. Your game gives me Paper Sorcerer vibes, which I enjoyed even though I didn't finish.

 

[NoMoneyNoFameNoDame]

I added Trophies to unlock to my game.
There are 9 trophies.

You unlock them by having a lifetime total of achievement points.