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Incline Chris Avellone Appreciation Station

Rev

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Going through his interviews from the last couple of years was interesting in that regard. He barely ever mentioned that stuff before 2013 or so, but then he started to bring up the downsides of his job. Most notably, he seemed to hate the corporate side of it: partner meetings, firing people, pitching projects, etc. Most interesting change was this "freedom of genres, franchises" in the tweet above.
In an older interview, Chris said his friend Haden Blackman (ex-LucasArts) told him he envied his job, due to the wide variety of projects he was able to work on, while Blackman could only work on Star Wars. Shortly before and after his departure, however, MCA was talking about how some at Obsidian had a close mindset, always wanted to do the same thing, and so on.

Can't blame him, really. Back then Obsidian worked on fantasy RPGs as usual, but also Aliens, an espionage RPG, Fallout, even Seven Dwarfs. Very distinct franchises and settings. Now they have AW, which is too different, but also PoE, Tyranny, Pathfinder and Skyforge. All very similar, relatively speaking.
In retrospect, the fact he went out of his way to work on FTL for free was quite telling.

Well, Tyranny is supposedly different from PoE, both in the setting and story premises and because of the absence of classic fantasy races like elves and dwarves (not confirmed yet, but I think the game will feature mostly humans, and then those "beasts" mentioned in the world map). But yeah, as much as I liked PoE and fantasy games in general, it would be good to see Obsidian trying to do something that doesn't involve magic, dungeons and isn't yet another high fantasy rpg.

Sadly, Feargus and the owners seem to think that exploring different settings may displease the audience. I recall an interview in which Feargus said he turned down the offer to make a Game of Thrones rpg because they couldn't have the players explore dungeons and kill monsters in that kind of setting. I hope the real reason was something else (i.e. not enough money or they had other pitches) but still it was quite sad to hear something like that from the man in charge.

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Rev

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Game of Thrones is shit, so that was a good call by the Feargus.
You may like it or not, the point is that he turned it down because it didn't have goblins, orcs, trolls and shits. It's a fucking stupid reason to refuse to work on an IP.

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Lhynn

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What is Skyforge?
its an mmo about being a watcher god, and you do what watcher gods do in that game, that is kill trash mobs forever and once a day play some shitty facebook game. its basically a single character PoE without pause.
 
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Alienman

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So with a statement like that from MCA, it looks like we are coming to another cycle of dead rpg companies and "legendary" developers starting anew again but with 100% more difficulty now. Maybe I'm just cynical, but since the Kickstarter fad/hope is over...
 

Fairfax

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Well, Tyranny is supposedly different from PoE, both in the setting and story premises and because of the absence of classic fantasy races like elves and dwarves (not confirmed yet, but I think the game will feature mostly humans, and then those "beasts" mentioned in the world map). But yeah, as much as I liked PoE and fantasy games in general, it would be good to see Obsidian trying to do something that doesn't involve magic, dungeons and isn't yet another high fantasy rpg.

Sadly, Feargus and the owners seem to think that exploring different settings may displease the audience. I recall an interview in which Feargus said he turned down the offer to make a Game of Thrones rpg because they couldn't have the players explore dungeons and kill monsters in that kind of setting. I hope the real reason was something else (i.e. not enough money or they had other pitches) but still it was quite sad to hear something like that from the man in charge.

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I remember that interview as well. They turned down a great opportunity. An actual good RPG based on ASOIAF would've sold a hell of a lot more than most of their recent projects.
What he said didn't even make sense, by the way. There's plenty of potential in the lore, and all they had to do in order to include magic and monsters was pick a different point in the timeline. The devs who took the deal seemed to have plenty of creative freedom, such as the RTS going back 1000 years.
So with a statement like that from MCA, it looks like we are coming to another cycle of dead rpg companies and "legendary" developers starting anew again but with 100% more difficulty now. Maybe I'm just cynical, but since the Kickstarter fad/hope is over...
The CRPG Renaissance was ultimately a disappointment, but I don't think "the Kickstarter hope is over". Example: if MCA took ~20 of his pals and launched a campaign to direct his own game, it could raise at least as much as PoE/TTON, and chances are it'd be much better than both.
 

Jaesun

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Sadly, Feargus and the owners seem to think that exploring different settings may displease the audience. I recall an interview in which Feargus said he turned down the offer to make a Game of Thrones rpg because they couldn't have the players explore dungeons and kill monsters in that kind of setting. I hope the real reason was something else (i.e. not enough money or they had other pitches) but still it was quite sad to hear something like that from the man in charge.


They were only approached as "consultants" not designers.
 

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The CRPG Renaissance has been incredibly successful. If you think this is what failure looks like you need go to take a look at other genres. And remind yourself again how things were back in 2011-2012.
 
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InD_ImaginE

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The CRPG Renaissance was ultimately a disappointment, but I don't think "the Kickstarter hope is over". Example: if MCA took ~20 of his pals and launched a campaign to direct his own game, it could raise at least as much as PoE/TTON, and chances are it'd be much better than both.

not really I think. While he is a respected writer in crpg community to get that much money he need to work with famous designer.
 

Athelas

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The CRPG Renaissance was ultimately a disappointment, but I don't think "the Kickstarter hope is over". Example: if MCA took ~20 of his pals and launched a campaign to direct his own game, it could raise at least as much as PoE/TTON, and chances are it'd be much better than both.
Sadly, Avellone does not have that large a reputation of an auteur figure to command funding like that. For reference, he has like 20k Twitter followers while Ken Levine has 700k and Tim Schafer has a million.
 

Fairfax

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They were only approached as "consultants" not designers.
Understandable, in that case.
The CRPG Renaissance has been incredibly successful. If you think this is what failure looks like you need go to take a look at other genres. And remind yourself again how things were back in 2011-2012.
Banner Saga, PoE, Shadowrun and WL2 were disappointing to me. D:OS was a pleasant surprise, and we'll see about TTON. I'm glad all of these games got funded in the first place, mind you. Things are better and all, but I expected better games. Just my two cents.
not really I think. While he is a respected writer in crpg community to get that much money he need to work with famous designer.
Eh...you do know he's not just a writer?
Sadly, Avellone does not have that large a reputation of an auteur figure to command funding like that. For reference, he has like 20k Twitter followers while Ken Levine has 700k and Tim Schafer has a million.
I honestly don't know enough about Twitter to explain that difference, but there are some things to consider:
  • Ken Levine and Tim Schafer made much bigger brands of themselves, and it shows. Unlike other "celebrity devs", Tim Schafer went out of his way to do it himself.
  • That notoriety is not good if you start to harm your reputation. People already got burned with DF kickstarters and the spacebase fiasco, then the Psychonauts 2 Fig campaign effectively failed among backers and needed an extensions to reach its goal even with the shady investors. Fortunately, MCA's reputation is pretty much intact.
  • They've had much bigger roles in recent, prominent projects. Levine led 2 very successful AAA FPS, while Tim Schafer got this whole KS thing going.
  • MCA hasn't had a major role in a game since Alpha Protocol, and he was actually brought in halfway through to rescue it. KOTOR2 was the last time he was Project Director. That was 12 years ago, and this would actually be a selling point.
  • A quick look at Levine's twitter tells me he talks about more controversial topics, including politics and the games industry in general. MCA has never been an outspoken figure, and his Twitter seems much more "personal". Again, I don't understand enough about twitter, but that's my impression.
  • If Chris got this ball rolling, it goes without saying the people he'd bring along would come from well-known studios as well. You can check KS and see projects raising a lot more money simply because of the previous games and studios used to work on. It makes a difference.
I mean, just look at TTON. It was sold as a spiritual sequel to MCA's magnum opus. It had Fargo promoting it, MCA endorsing it and members of the original PS:T team, none of which were celebrities. I'm sure codexers knew it was in good hands with Kevin and all, but that's not something more casual fans considered. The project raised $2 million before adding more popular devs and ambitious stretch goals.
As I said, here's how the numbers changed after the Chris Avellone stretch goal. It was announced on March 22:

dailypledges.png


The 7 days before had an average of $32,146 pledged per day. And that's without considering 03/21 was the day they announced the Pat Rothfuss stretch goal. The 7 days before that had an average of $28,632.
The 7 days after MCA had an average of $45,540. A 41.66% increase over the former, and a 59% over the latter.
The day his stretch goal was announced was also (by far) the most funded day outside the initial 4 and last 4 days of the campaign.

I don't think he'd raise nearly as much as these games simply because the project itself wouldn't be as ambitious, and the Kickstarter fad is a bit worn out. However, with the right pitch and the right campaign, he could easily get $2.5-3 million. Except if the project is made by InXile and he's hired as a freelancer to lead it. In that case it'd make much less.

Anyway, just some random speculation as usual. Or not. Perhaps it's something Chris has been foreshadowing for a while.

CWjn39GWoAAZEiz.jpg:large

:M
 

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Except if the project is made by InXile and he's hired as a freelancer to lead it. In that case it'd make much less.

What does it matter? Do you really want Chris Avellone to pull a Troika? He's probably too smart to repeat that.

But then again, I'm not really sure he's interested in making an oldschool RPG at all. First person systemic dialogue tree-free Kickstarter in cooperation with Ken Levine
 
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Volrath

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The CRPG Renaissance has been incredibly successful. If you think this is what failure looks like you need go to take a look at other genres. And remind yourself again how things were back in 2011-2012.
At least we didn't have broken dreams then.
 

Fairfax

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Except if the project is made by InXile and he's hired as a freelancer to lead it. In that case it'd make much less.

What does it matter? Do you really want Chris Avellone to pull a Troika? He's probably too smart to repeat that.

But then again, I'm not really sure he's interested in making an oldschool RPG at all. First person systemic dialogue tree-free Kickstarter in cooperation with Ken Levine
It matters because InXile still has 2 Kickstarter games to deliver. I really doubt people will back another one before they deliver one of them and it's good.
Troika had a different context and lots of unfortunate events. I think the 3 games they made would've been more successful today, and they could've been a viable Kickstarter studio like InXile or Larian. But I digress.

I'm sure MCA has plenty of pet projects he'd like to make. If he started a new studio, I think he'd go with a less ambitious one than an IE-style CRPG or Van Buren.
As long as it's not VR crap...:M
 

Xor

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The CRPG Renaissance has been incredibly successful. If you think this is what failure looks like you need go to take a look at other genres. And remind yourself again how things were back in 2011-2012.
At least we didn't have broken dreams then.
At least now we have more to talk about then how Oblivion destroyed the genre, or how much Fallout 3 sucked, or the rapid decline of Bioware, or how Obsidian kept failing to live up to their potential. Seriously, even mediocre RPGs are better than the shit we had to put up with 5 years ago.
 

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I think the 3 games they made would've been more successful today, and they could've been a viable Kickstarter studio like InXile or Larian.

I have my doubts. If they were to release those games today they wouldn't have the immediate benefit of a Drog, a Circle of Eight, or a Wesp.
 

Fairfax

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Chris doesn't expect Obsidian to get another chance to make a Fallout game, or any other studio for that matter. The interesting part is: "and that's why I freelance". He obviously didn't leave Obsidian to hope Bethesda would hire him as freelance to work on it. It's more like "by freelancing there's a chance I'll get to work on franchises I love, some of which Obsidian can't/won't work on".
This is kind of big, because it's the first time he's mentioning one of the specific reasons for his departure.
 

Beastro

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Chris doesn't expect Obsidian to get another chance to make a Fallout game, or any other studio for that matter. The interesting part is: "and that's why I freelance". He obviously didn't leave Obsidian to hope Bethesda would hire him as freelance to work on it. It's more like "by freelancing there's a chance I'll get to work on franchises I love, some of which Obsidian can't/won't work on".
This is kind of big, because it's the first time he's mentioning one of the specific reasons for his departure.


If he hated what Obsidian did to his work in PoE, I can't imagine his reaction to hearing Bethesda's reasons for butchering it. :D
 

Infinitron

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He obviously didn't leave Obsidian to hope Bethesda would hire him as freelance to work on it.

Don't be so sure. I said in another thread that Avellone might be angling for a Michael Kirkbride-like role at Bethesda, periodically contracted to brush up the Fallout lore. He said in a previous tweet that "I'd rather work with the Fallout lore at the source".
 
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Rev

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As a freelancer I don't see him doing much more than what he's doing right now, that is some minor work in other people's games that will hardly have a big impact on those products (as in WL2 where his work wasn't above the mediocrity of the rest of the game). And his content would matter even less in whatever shit of a game Bethesda would come up with.
Then again, it's been five years since he did any major work (and the F:NV dlcs weren't that great, aside from Dead Money), I hope he'll reconsider his view in the future and give us another Torment or KotOR II (or at least try it), instead of wasting his talent doing some writing for other companies.
 

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