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Incline Chris Avellone Appreciation Station

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Moblin Villige
I... I... always wanted to do a Kickstarter.

In fact, I was the first to bring it up with the community (which crashed the Obsidian website and was not well received by Ops because we weren't equipped to handle the volume of responses - which I took as a GREAT sign).

http://forums.obsidian.net/blog/1/entry-158-if-obsidian-kickstarter/

Always a KS fan, I believe you should definitely ask the actual PLAYERS what they want to see and are willing to support.

In addition, I spent a long time going through all the responses to get a sense of what the people responding wanted to see as well:

http://forums.obsidian.net/blog/1/entry-159-initial-kickstarter-responses/

Anyway, wanted to say - always been a KS fan. I think it's one of the best ways to go.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Busted!

I guess I should feel bad because I was one of those who originally suggested that possibility. Early 2012 is before I became a newsposter and started paying attention obsessively to everything. :M
 

Fairfax

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
3,518
I... I... always wanted to do a Kickstarter.

In fact, I was the first to bring it up with the community (which crashed the Obsidian website and was not well received by Ops because we weren't equipped to handle the volume of responses - which I took as a GREAT sign).

http://forums.obsidian.net/blog/1/entry-158-if-obsidian-kickstarter/

Always a KS fan, I believe you should definitely ask the actual PLAYERS what they want to see and are willing to support.

In addition, I spent a long time going through all the responses to get a sense of what the people responding wanted to see as well:

http://forums.obsidian.net/blog/1/entry-159-initial-kickstarter-responses/

Anyway, wanted to say - always been a KS fan. I think it's one of the best ways to go.
Oops. :lol:
It's just that it's been said so many times that the partners were against the idea that I always assumed you were, too.

And hey, I'll eat crow any day of the week if it makes Chris Avellone post here more often. :positive:
 

Neanderthal

Arcane
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Jul 7, 2015
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Granbretan
Honest question: when was the last time MCA made a game worth buying?

New Vegas expansions spring to mind. Personally I think Dead Money were best on em, Old World Blues were a bit too Fallout 2 for me, and Longest Road just seemed a little off somehow. Dead Money though were a perfect mix o gameplay reinforcing themes, an narrative bein an intrinsic part o experience. Tell you what it really reminded me of was Chinatown, you know film wi Jack Nicholson an Faye Dunaway? Little story at the heart of it, a messy triangle set at the end of the world, a villain, a victim and a hero an how their positions morph an change throughout. Classic.
 

SymbolicFrank

Magister
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
1,674
Hi Chris,

I take it you and Josh are about at the opposite point of the scale when considering what makes a game worth playing, but I also understand you won't want to comment on that. I get it and respect that. No questions there.

But I do wonder about something. And it originates at PS:T. It is: "What can change the nature of a man?" :D Cheeky, I know. And I do ask myself the same question, regularly. It has about the same emotional impact as "I'm taking control of my life right now!", form Tom Petty (Two Gunslingers). And that's what is all about, isn't it? That emotional response. Make the listener care.

Anyway, what I am wondering about is: what did you want at that time, and did you get it?


I realize this is something about which you could write many books, if you dared and wanted to. And I'm sure you would make many people on this forum very happy if you posted the occasional short story, that might or might not be autobiographic. Just wild and imaginary is great as well.

But that is up to you. I'm just curious about the evolution of you-then, to you-now. A few words are fine by me. But the less you tell, the larger the chance of me misunderstanding.

Greetings, Frank
 

serch

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Messages
1,392
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Behind mistary, in front of conspirancy
I... I... always wanted to do a Kickstarter.

In fact, I was the first to bring it up with the community (which crashed the Obsidian website and was not well received by Ops because we weren't equipped to handle the volume of responses - which I took as a GREAT sign).

http://forums.obsidian.net/blog/1/entry-158-if-obsidian-kickstarter/

Always a KS fan, I believe you should definitely ask the actual PLAYERS what they want to see and are willing to support.

In addition, I spent a long time going through all the responses to get a sense of what the people responding wanted to see as well:

http://forums.obsidian.net/blog/1/entry-159-initial-kickstarter-responses/

Anyway, wanted to say - always been a KS fan. I think it's one of the best ways to go.

Burning-Bush-610x351.jpg
 

SymbolicFrank

Magister
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
1,674
Honest question: when was the last time MCA made a game worth buying?

New Vegas expansions spring to mind. Personally I think Dead Money were best on em, Old World Blues were a bit too Fallout 2 for me, and Longest Road just seemed a little off somehow. Dead Money though were a perfect mix o gameplay reinforcing themes, an narrative bein an intrinsic part o experience. Tell you what it really reminded me of was Chinatown, you know film wi Jack Nicholson an Faye Dunaway? Little story at the heart of it, a messy triangle set at the end of the world, a villain, a victim and a hero an how their positions morph an change throughout. Classic.
Interesting.

I rate them just about opposite. I see Dead Money as a waste of my time, while I really like Old World Blues. I would like it even more if it was better paced (I really don't like unskippable infodumps, or NPC's repeating stuff every interaction). Love the environment and stories, but the presentation could be better. Dead Money is mostly irritating.

I can see what they wanted to do with Dead Money. And I could enjoy that. But the execution is very cliche. It irritates me.

More explanations: nearly unkillable, respawning enemies you're not supposed to attack? No freedom of movement? No nice loot or other rewards until it's all over? Offensively and defensively you're pushed into a small mold that fits the DLC, not your character. And you have to slog through all the tedium.

Ulysses feels very pushed as it is. Don't care. I might if it was an actual character you could interact with, but (as I said), I really don't like unskippable infodumps. Tacked on. Remove the staples and throw away all content that whips you if you don't do as designed.
 

Neanderthal

Arcane
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Messages
3,626
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Granbretan
I can see what they wanted to do with Dead Money. And I could enjoy that. But the execution is very cliche. It irritates me.

More explanations: nearly unkillable, respawning enemies you're not supposed to attack? No freedom of movement? No nice loot or other rewards until it's all over? Offensively and defensively you're pushed into a small mold that fits the DLC, not your character. And you have to slog through all the tedium.

Ghost Folk or Holograms? Holograms I admit I were irritated by for a bit until I could disable em, but the Ghost Folk I thought were brilliantly implemented, they were actually scary an you had to be wary on em instead o usual boring bags o XP that you grind. I had massive freedom o movement, I were crawlin all over place in that crumbling old resort, dashin through mist, findin paths to skirt alarms, up on roofs, climbin through windows, felt like a second story man. I thought loot were much better handled than in base game, findin one o Deans stashes actually meant someat, an you could craft some really nice melee weapons, whereas in base game it were just pickin an choosin because there were so much shit around. Loved how you actually had to be wary an smart for a change, hoard stimpacks an other items an use em wisely, struggle to survive rather than just skim through content doing what you usually do. Opposite o tedious to me, game were thrilling break from normal New Vegas.

Then again I like being challenged by unexpected, an I like horror an survival elements an all, so this were my bag.
 
Last edited:

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,323
I... I... always wanted to do a Kickstarter.

In fact, I was the first to bring it up with the community (which crashed the Obsidian website and was not well received by Ops because we weren't equipped to handle the volume of responses - which I took as a GREAT sign).

http://forums.obsidian.net/blog/1/entry-158-if-obsidian-kickstarter/

Always a KS fan, I believe you should definitely ask the actual PLAYERS what they want to see and are willing to support.

In addition, I spent a long time going through all the responses to get a sense of what the people responding wanted to see as well:

http://forums.obsidian.net/blog/1/entry-159-initial-kickstarter-responses/

Anyway, wanted to say - always been a KS fan. I think it's one of the best ways to go.
Oops. :lol:
It's just that it's been said so many times that the partners were against the idea that I always assumed you were, too.

And hey, I'll eat crow any day of the week if it makes Chris Avellone post here more often. :positive:
:mixedemotions: by MCA
:drink:
 

Fairfax

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
3,518
I don't know why this wasn't posted before, but it's great.

There's this Early Access game coming up called Overfall. It'll feature a story creation mode, and they asked/hired Chris Avellone to write a game writing style guide to help players.
The guide is already available, and according to Gameranx it has almost 10,000 words.

Haven't read it yet, but looks very detailed and seems to cover a lot. Anyway, here it is.



I guess this is the guide he hinted last month when he answered my question on twitter:

Just one more thing: in several interviews you mention a style guide you wrote, and it sounds immensely useful. Is that a general guide available somewhere or something specific from a previous project?

On the Style Guide thing, there's been a lot of random discussions about it lately, I may end up posting one for a specific project (although it would include general ones/rules as well). I've written about 5-6, I think, and they date back to the Black Isle days when we first used them to standardize text (we kept iterating on them, so they've grown over time and depending on the project).
 
Last edited:

Fairfax

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
3,518
games™ has a short piece on Icewind Dale's development, with quotes from MCA and a few other members of the team (Saywer is not one of them).

Behind the scenes of Icewind Dale
The story of Icewind Dale begins in 1998, two years before it appeared on the shelves of your valiant local games shop. Released to critical acclaim and massive sales figures, Baldur’s Gate turned the RPG genre on its head, its five discs encompassing an expansive and involving story, spattered with swords and sorcery action and an advanced engine called Infinity running the show beneath its vibrant world. The success of Baldur’s Gate meant a sequel was inevitable, yet with a workable and adaptable engine in place, it was clear further games in the Forgotten Realms could prove popular.

However, first came Planescape Torment. A superb mix of macabre RPG, the Infinity engine and a heavily-altered version of the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons second edition ruleset, the game was a hit with critics, but not so with gamers. Lead designer on Planescape was Chris Avellone. “Planescape at that point had largely broken me and my health,” he grimaces. “Although it didn’t help, I was working on Fallout 2 at the same time.”

Fortunately, Interplay’s vice president, Trish Wright, instructed Avellone to take it easy and stop working so late. “I was grateful that she was compassionate enough to swing by,” notes Avellone. Soon he would be lending his talents to miscellaneous areas within Icewind Dale, a project that would prove to be a relatively calmer experience for the young designer.

mainbody_icewindartwork2-1024x768.jpg

The nature of Icewind Dale’s development meant that, for once, the technical side remained an easier ride for those involved, as opposed to design. Working at parent company Interplay was coder David Ray.

“I’d been in the VR Sports department, working on Interplay Baseball 2000 when I was moved over to Black Isle and Fallout 3,” he remembers. When the sequel in the post-apocalyptic franchise was ultimately cancelled, Ray remained at Black Isle and was put to work on Icewind Dale instead. “I was a huge R.A. Salvatore fan and had read the Icewind Trilogy back in the early nineties,” he continues. “I’d also been GMing a D&D campaign set in the Forgotten Realms for several years, so the idea of being involved in making the digital version made me kind of giddy.”

Several ideas had been brainstormed prior to Black Isle settling on the backdrop of the realm’s harshest region.

“I’d worked on a number of projects at Interplay in a limited capacity,” says Avellone, “and a variety of cancelled and shelved Forgotten Realms titles – of which there were many and in some of the weirdest parts of the Realms too.” Another designer on Icewind was Stephen Bokkes and he recalls how the initial concept came about.

“At the time, Black Isle Studios was close to wrapping up Planescape: Torment. Our next project was Fallout 3, but it was decided that we had the budget and resources for an interim project of smaller scope and scale that would allow us to transition team members between projects more effectively.” Given the long-standing relationship with Wizards Of The Coast, it made sense to utilise another of its properties. “A number of us were avid D&D fans, so another Forgotten Realms campaign seemed like perfect sense,” continues Bokkes. “After a few days, sleepless nights and preliminary concept work, the Dragon Spear project was born.”

mainbody_cyclopsidea-1024x522.jpg

The original title for the project was Dragonspear Castle, its name derived from an obscure location within the Forgotten Realms. “We were told to expect a small team and a short development cycle of less than twelve months,” Bokkes explains, “and as such, the initial game concept was pretty much a straightforward dungeon crawler, heavy on combat encounters and light on story and dialogue.” Yet while this concept changed little during development, many of its team felt the scope of the game was too narrow and the setting too little known.

Bokkes continues, “After a bit of hair-pulling, arguing and convincing – [in other words,] collaboration – between us, the management and Wizards Of The Coast, we agreed to revisit the concept. I came up with a list of settings and locations that I considered more interesting and worthy of an adventure of the Forgotten Realms. The Moonshae Isles and Icewind Dale were the team’s top two choices on the list, and being an unapologetic fanboy of Salvatore’s novels, I rejoiced when we ultimately went with Icewind Dale.”

For those not familiar with the Forgotten Realms, Icewind Dale takes place in Faerun, a continent to the north of a world called Abeir-Toril, or Toril. Known also as the Barbaric North or the Savage Frontier, Icewind Dale contains numerous large caverns of former dwarfish strongholds and ruins of long-dead cultures, separated from the rest of Faerun by a wall of jagged peaks known as the Spine of the World.

Peppered by a steady stream of brave souls looking to explore, or simply those wishing to escape the rigid laws and taxes of the temperate southern lands, it is a place where nature rules, in the form of huge mountains and elongated lengths of alpine forests. Yet settlements exist despite the desolateness; linking the towns of Easthaven and Kuldahar is Kuldahar Pass, the main route throughout the north, and Icewind Dale’s tale takes place here, and on the plains of the Dale itself.

mainbody_groupshot-stephen-bokkes-josh-sawyer-scott-warner-chris-avellone-john-deiley-reg-arnedo-1024x734.jpg

Groupshot: Stephen Bokkes, Josh Sawyer, Scott Warner, Chris Avellone, John Deiley, Reg Arnedo

Centuries ago, barbarian tribes such as the Uthgardt and Reghedmen lived on Icewind’s expanses and forged a difficult yet independent existence. When an archmage known as Arakon arrived, complete with a mercenary army and intent on conquering the northern wastes, a fierce battle ensued that initially favoured the wizard’s forces.

However, the tide turned decisively when the barbarian tribes, united by a shaman known as Jerrod, drove back the mercenaries, forcing Arakon into one last desperate act.

As the barbarian army surrounded the archmage, he summoned all of his power and tore open the planar boundaries, opening up a portal to the lower planes. Materialising from this conduit came forth a horde of hideous demons, intent on slaying any creature they set their devilish eyes upon. Struck by a vision from his God, Tempus, Jerrod forced his way through the demons and into the portal itself – his blood combining with its energy to fuse the gateway shut. However, as the introduction to Icewind Dale portentously states, this is not the end of the story, but merely the beginning.

To this backdrop enters a party of warriors, created completely by the player. Each character can be designed from race to colour, class, alignment and skills. “The idea of building every single party member was new,” remembers Avellone, “and while it bogged down the opening of the game, it was still fun to build everyone from scratch. I enjoyed it, anyway!”

mainbody_forgeconceptart-250x300.jpg
The initial storyline was put together by Bokkes and Josh Sawyer, who also generated the game’s preproduction design documentation. As production began in earnest, Bokkes focused primarily on the design of the major quest hubs (Easthaven and Kuldahar) and the level design for several encounter areas. Despite using an existing engine, Icewind Dale’s purpose restricted what could be achieved in terms of design.

Avellone recalls that, “Much of the game was not motivated by what was essential, but more by what we could do with the time (not much of it) and resources (much less than Baldur’s Gate in terms of personnel and budget) and yet still feel compelling. Icewind Dale was designed to get product out fast and keep Interplay afloat during difficult times.”

David Ray was the lead programmer and responsible for the adaptations to the infinity engine. “We were using what we called Baldur’s Gate 1.5,” he reveals. “It was the latest engine and had many of Baldur’s Gate II’s features, but not all of them. A lot of our engineering time was spent working out the kinks in the new features and massaging them to work without complications. One of the notable things we did was in the rendering engine. They had implemented OpenGL to support faster rendering when you had a 3D card, but we wanted to support some of the new features without requiring a 3D graphics card.”

3D cards were fast becoming commonplace but were still expensive. Icewind Dale’s separate software renderer ensured everybody could experience the game’s new magical spell effects.

Other additions and amendments were plentiful, if minor. As Ray explains, “We created a few new animation sequences that weren’t in Baldur’s Gate and many of the spells required updated code paths, but it was mostly the same engine, we just added a few whistles and bells.” By creating the type of game that the Infinity engine was essentially designed for and coupled with Black Isle’s experience on Planescape: Torment the project moved forwards smoothly from this point of view, save the odd ambitious design element that the system could not handle.

mainbody_everardsacrifice.jpg

“I’m a huge dragon nerd,” smiles Ray, “and there was a lot of talk about putting this huge dragon in the game. But I was the one that killed the idea because I felt like we couldn’t do it justice with the technical limitations and time constraints. I was a little sad about it, but I still feel it was the right decision to make at the time.” A collection of screen-enveloping dragons would eventually appear in both Baldur’s Gate II and Icewind Dale II.

Design proved even more troublesome, with enthusiastic ideas often drowned out by the restrictions of the Infinity engine.

“Most of the issues were over time,” says Avellone, “and we had arguments about aspects of the style guide. Even though it was a dungeon crawler, I didn’t have much tolerance for goofiness in the game, which chafed a bit, especially if it got in the way of an otherwise well-scripted dramatic moment. We kind of gave up on this stance as it vanished during the chaos of Icewind Dale II, where it did get kind of goofy.”

Another aspect Avellone regrets is that a time-saving tokenised system was only employed later on. “It meant the game could read the spell and item data files associated with the spell [or] item and automatically assign the designer-set properties such as duration, damage and class usage,” he explains. “It would then import it into the outward-facing text descriptions. [This] made it so much easier, eliminating the need to enter and finalise data by hand and helping reduce bugs.”

Avellone also contributed a number of elements to several major characters, he helped compose the narrative style guide, tweaked dialogue and proofed script implementation and checklists.

“I had about a 30-row long checklist table for every dialogue in the game to run through for fixes,” he recalls, “and although that may sound boring, I love that stuff when I’m not writing – or not in the mood to write [anyway]. I also wrote the manual, which everyone should do for a game at least once because doing that during the last months of a game is a hellish obstacle course of tracking spell and item information to make sure everything is correct. And a lot of systems can change and be rebalanced during that timeframe.”

mainbody_kuldaharart-1024x512.jpg

Upon release, Icewind Dale was not without its critics. Many decried its simplicity after the plot-heavy and character-focused Baldur’s Gate, others highlighted some of the technical deficiencies of the infinity engine, such as its sometimes dubious pathfinding, that had irritatingly re-appeared from its forebear.

The development team, perhaps sensing that Icewind Dale lacked depth, made the game extremely tough, another fact that was noted at the time. There’s no doubt that charging full-on into many of the tricky battles would soon see several darkened portraits. Sneaking a thief forward and drawing out enemies one by one was a tactic many players picked up on, but this was not one anticipated by the development team.

“I personally liked emergent behaviour in games,” declares David Ray, “and I can appreciate it when players can do things that the developers didn’t think of. I don’t recall if any of us thought of that specifically, but I’m kind of glad it worked.”

Avellone notes of this method, “It may not be realistic, but [such] challenges that force you to re-examine ’charge!‘ strategies really make a designer’s day. One of the most fun aspects of the Icewind Dale series was layering new ways of undermining these challenges.

For example, once it became clear that a number of testers and players were using animal and elemental summon mobs to be their front line tanks, it wasn’t hard adjusting the key spellcasters and enemy mages so they would dispel first and ask questions later.”

Despite the criticisms, Icewind Dale scored well and proved there was a market hungry for its wide breadth of free-roaming adventuring. The game even survived a similar release date to another highly-anticipated RPG in Diablo II, with some remarking that maybe this assisted sales in a perverse way, with many gamers eagerly picking up both titles.

mainbody_dragonseye.jpg

“Diablo II was gonna slaughter us in the action RPG arena,” says Avellone, “and it was almost something you expected, not dreaded.” Nevertheless, the game sold credibly, assisted by the public’s familiarity with its gameplay style and engine. In all, there is little that those involved would change about Icewind Dale itself.

“It was what it was,” says Avellone, “and for that, it was pretty well sized and scoped, except for the system changes. I probably would have left some of those alone in hindsight, so the programmers weren’t on the verge of divorce from the long hours.”

David Ray cites the user interface as something that could have been modernised. “Updating the UI was something we had wanted to do while we were working on it,” he recalls, “but we did a cost/benefit on it and decided it was something we couldn’t fit into the schedule.” For the development team, Icewind Dale represents a variable point in their careers. Avellone laments the role the game played as a bridge to other projects, when perhaps making a start on further Baldur’s Gate games, or even Fallout: Van Buren may have seen those franchises flourish at Interplay.

“We had tons of fun with it, but honestly it wasn’t a ground-breaking game – just fun. But lest I sound like Debbie Downer, fun’s the thing and not every game has to set out to change the world. Players enjoyed it, we had fun making it and that’s what counts,” Avellone remembers fondly.

For programmer David Ray, having been cornered into developing sports games, working on Icewind Dale was a breath of (icy) fresh air and sparked a career of development on similar titles, including the phenomenally successful World Of Warcraft.

Interplay followed Icewind Dale with the expansion Heart Of Winter which was, incredibly, even tougher than the original game, if a little on the brief side. After another (free) expansion entitled Trials Of The Luremaster, a proper sequel was released in 2002. Essentially more of the same, it sold steadily, but not enough to save Black Isle Studios, before publisher Interplay itself became quite the story over the remainder of the decade. But that, brave adventurer, is a tale for another time.
Group shot:

MCA quotes for the lazy:

Lead designer on Planescape was Chris Avellone. “Planescape at that point had largely broken me and my health,” he grimaces. “Although it didn’t help, I was working on Fallout 2 at the same time.”

Fortunately, Interplay’s vice president, Trish Wright, instructed Avellone to take it easy and stop working so late. “I was grateful that she was compassionate enough to swing by,” notes Avellone. Soon he would be lending his talents to miscellaneous areas within Icewind Dale, a project that would prove to be a relatively calmer experience for the young designer.

“I’d worked on a number of projects at Interplay in a limited capacity,” says Avellone, “and a variety of cancelled and shelved Forgotten Realms titles – of which there were many and in some of the weirdest parts of the Realms too.”

To this backdrop enters a party of warriors, created completely by the player. Each character can be designed from race to colour, class, alignment and skills. “The idea of building every single party member was new,” remembers Avellone, “and while it bogged down the opening of the game, it was still fun to build everyone from scratch. I enjoyed it, anyway!”

Avellone recalls that, “Much of the game was not motivated by what was essential, but more by what we could do with the time (not much of it) and resources (much less than Baldur’s Gate in terms of personnel and budget) and yet still feel compelling. Icewind Dale was designed to get product out fast and keep Interplay afloat during difficult times.”

“Most of the issues were over time,” says Avellone, “and we had arguments about aspects of the style guide. Even though it was a dungeon crawler, I didn’t have much tolerance for goofiness in the game, which chafed a bit, especially if it got in the way of an otherwise well-scripted dramatic moment. We kind of gave up on this stance as it vanished during the chaos of Icewind Dale II, where it did get kind of goofy.”

Another aspect Avellone regrets is that a time-saving tokenised system was only employed later on. “It meant the game could read the spell and item data files associated with the spell [or] item and automatically assign the designer-set properties such as duration, damage and class usage,” he explains. “It would then import it into the outward-facing text descriptions. [This] made it so much easier, eliminating the need to enter and finalise data by hand and helping reduce bugs.”

Avellone also contributed a number of elements to several major characters, he helped compose the narrative style guide, tweaked dialogue and proofed script implementation and checklists.

“I had about a 30-row long checklist table for every dialogue in the game to run through for fixes,” he recalls, “and although that may sound boring, I love that stuff when I’m not writing – or not in the mood to write [anyway]. I also wrote the manual, which everyone should do for a game at least once because doing that during the last months of a game is a hellish obstacle course of tracking spell and item information to make sure everything is correct. And a lot of systems can change and be rebalanced during that timeframe.”

Avellone notes of this method, “It may not be realistic, but [such] challenges that force you to re-examine ’charge!‘ strategies really make a designer’s day. One of the most fun aspects of the Icewind Dale series was layering new ways of undermining these challenges.

“Diablo II was gonna slaughter us in the action RPG arena,” says Avellone, “and it was almost something you expected, not dreaded.” Nevertheless, the game sold credibly, assisted by the public’s familiarity with its gameplay style and engine. In all, there is little that those involved would change about Icewind Dale itself.

“It was what it was,” says Avellone, “and for that, it was pretty well sized and scoped, except for the system changes. I probably would have left some of those alone in hindsight, so the programmers weren’t on the verge of divorce from the long hours.”

David Ray cites the user interface as something that could have been modernised. “Updating the UI was something we had wanted to do while we were working on it,” he recalls, “but we did a cost/benefit on it and decided it was something we couldn’t fit into the schedule.” For the development team, Icewind Dale represents a variable point in their careers. Avellone laments the role the game played as a bridge to other projects, when perhaps making a start on further Baldur’s Gate games, or even Fallout: Van Buren may have seen those franchises flourish at Interplay.

“We had tons of fun with it, but honestly it wasn’t a ground-breaking game – just fun. But lest I sound like Debbie Downer, fun’s the thing and not every game has to set out to change the world. Players enjoyed it, we had fun making it and that’s what counts,” Avellone remembers fondly.
 
Vatnik
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
12,205
Location
USSR
Haven't read it yet, but looks very detailed and seems to cover a lot. Anyway, here it is.

A nice excerpt:

LORE SHOULD BE MORE

Exposition is exposition. A lore book, or a long-winded speech, while enlightening to the developer (and occasionally to the reader), should have some “meat” to it. The more that lore is simply word vomit makes players turn away from whatever richness your world has in store.

Instead, use lore as a game mechanic. Have a lore book spark a quest. Have a journal entry of the last words of a dying man reveal that he buried his family heirloom in a circle of trees - or the guard captain at Alpha Base 1 always slept with a shotgun beneath his bed… and the player that pays attention and goes back to search/look for such areas could find the hidden items they may otherwise have missed.

The bold passage reminds me of a certain title.
 

Fairfax

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
3,518
Haven't read it yet, but looks very detailed and seems to cover a lot. Anyway, here it is.

A nice excerpt:

LORE SHOULD BE MORE

Exposition is exposition. A lore book, or a long-winded speech, while enlightening to the developer (and occasionally to the reader), should have some “meat” to it. The more that lore is simply word vomit makes players turn away from whatever richness your world has in store.

Instead, use lore as a game mechanic. Have a lore book spark a quest. Have a journal entry of the last words of a dying man reveal that he buried his family heirloom in a circle of trees - or the guard captain at Alpha Base 1 always slept with a shotgun beneath his bed… and the player that pays attention and goes back to search/look for such areas could find the hidden items they may otherwise have missed.

The bold passage reminds me of a certain title.
Yes, the guide has sections which can be applied to several games which people speculate whether MCA would praise them.

Player responses need a consistent presentation. It can be simple:


Positive Response

Neutral Response

Exposition Questions

Hostile/Attack

Goodbye



Or depending on the mechanics of your game, it can be more complex:


Goody Two-Shoes Response

Robin Hood Good Response

Cold Neutral Response

Cunning Evil Response

Psychopathic Evil Response (can sometimes be the same as Hostile)

Hostile/Attack

Goodbye
popamoledex7xup1.png


Although Fallout 4 is actually worse:

  • Positive Response
  • Sarcastic
  • Exposition Question
  • Goodbye

Just replace "Sarcastic" with "Negative (Positive) Response" sometimes.

This one is brutally accurate about Fallout 4:

Lazy Evil: “Lazy evil” responses are ones that demand more money or threaten to kill the NPC. While these are easy to do, after a while, they aren’t interesting (especially if money and currency aren’t balanced in a game). Worse, they often don’t allow more exploration along the story arc or quest arc the NPC is providing. Play with evil mechanics - have the player blackmail an NPC, get a % in their store, force the NPC to provide their son/daughter as a squire or craftsman, or simply say, “you owe me a favor” and allow the player to cash out at a later date.
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,100
Location
California
I... I... always wanted to do a Kickstarter.

In fact, I was the first to bring it up with the community (which crashed the Obsidian website and was not well received by Ops because we weren't equipped to handle the volume of responses - which I took as a GREAT sign).

http://forums.obsidian.net/blog/1/entry-158-if-obsidian-kickstarter/

Always a KS fan, I believe you should definitely ask the actual PLAYERS what they want to see and are willing to support.

In addition, I spent a long time going through all the responses to get a sense of what the people responding wanted to see as well:

http://forums.obsidian.net/blog/1/entry-159-initial-kickstarter-responses/

Anyway, wanted to say - always been a KS fan. I think it's one of the best ways to go.

<3 <3 <3
 

Kalasanty11

Augur
Joined
May 1, 2014
Messages
154
Recently I found out that MCA was a guest writer in FTL. Was his contribution to the game's writing noticeable?
 

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
9,476
Location
where east is west
Haven't read it yet, but looks very detailed and seems to cover a lot. Anyway, here it is.

A nice excerpt:

LORE SHOULD BE MORE

Exposition is exposition. A lore book, or a long-winded speech, while enlightening to the developer (and occasionally to the reader), should have some “meat” to it. The more that lore is simply word vomit makes players turn away from whatever richness your world has in store.

Instead, use lore as a game mechanic. Have a lore book spark a quest. Have a journal entry of the last words of a dying man reveal that he buried his family heirloom in a circle of trees - or the guard captain at Alpha Base 1 always slept with a shotgun beneath his bed… and the player that pays attention and goes back to search/look for such areas could find the hidden items they may otherwise have missed.

The bold passage reminds me of a certain title.

The best pieces of lore are things like famous places and stuff you visit. One of the early joys of WoW, for instance, was traveling the world revisiting previous places from the old games.

Similar to that is really tying the lore to the plot. I never played the Ultima games, but watching Gamehorders LP of Serpents Isle makes me appreciate how much was done with fairly standard fantasy setting by having so much interwoven. From just seeing how they were handled and their own twists, I think Serpents Isle and Ultima 6 set a standard unmatched since.

That almost makes me think the stereotypical problem with RPGs being rooted in fantasy isn't the problem with them, it's that every generic fantasy setting simply tells the same story over and over while neglecting to put more effort into setting their fantasy world apart from the rest, which Ultima did in the same way a kids make believe adventures are silly, but have more nuance than what most game developers make because they're pure passion.
 

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