Bohrain's Umineko readalong speculation rambling thread

[Bohrain]

I started reading Umineko no Naku Koro Ni. I did watch the awful animè a decade ago, but I remember virtually nothing about it apart from witches that look like touhou characters appearing, so I don't consider myself spoiled.
Figured that I'd do a "let's play" of sorts. Since there is no actual gameplay because this isn't even a CYOA or VN I thought to post my speculations as I read along. Reading the steam version with 07th patch.

After episode 1:

First of all I think Kinzo was dead already when the first episode starts, bit of an unreliable narrator at play. He directly interacts only with three people, Genji, Nanjo and Natsumi.
I think Genji and Nanjo were cooperating at keeping up the facade that he is alive and the scene with Natsumi was Genji impersonating Kinzo.
All his other scenes did not actually happen, his corpse probably really was in the incinerator though.
Second, they relied on Nanjo to confirm the deaths, making him suspicious.
Especially in the first set of murders. Kyrie, Rudolf, Rosa and Gohda had their faces destroyed so they could've been just readily prepared corpses with appropriate clothes.
I'm not sure who impersonated Beatrice and gave Maria the umbrella, but Kanon had no alibi and Shannon & Kumasawa were each others' alibies, so probably one of those three.

Beginning of second episode, up until the school festival:

Beatrice doesn't exist, the scenes where she converses with Shannon are allegory to something. Possibly just Shannon's inner doubts personified or the true culprit
persuading her to take part in the plot. Kanon being hostile towards Beatrice probably means that he was against the idea of taking part of the plot.
Was Shannon plotting to fake the deaths of herself and George in order to get married? She is too stupid to be the true culprit.
Possible motive for taking part of the plot. She might've been double crossed OR the corpse with half of Shannon's face was a fake.
Ring could've been planted on the body as it was an open secret that the two were a couple.

I'm fairly certain there is a mastermind, but several people cooperated with the murders. Kinzo's assets are the obvious motive for the children.
But faking death is a significant motive for several people. Shannon and George wanted to elope, Rosa possibly wanted to abandon Maria.
If Kinzo's supposedly deceased lover Beatrice existed, the servants are the most likely to have any connection to her. Assuming she was about Kinzo's age, Kumawaza could be her.

Information regarding keys, alternate passageways and doors being locked rely on the testimonies of the servants, which make them highly suspicious. Especially Genji who has the master key
and was apparently present when the mansion was renovated.
Maria was probably duped by the culprit in order to convince the survivors that supernatural events took place.

Most likely mastermind: Krauss
He had embezzled Kinzo's funds so he probably could've liquidated his assets, sent them to an offshore account and claimed them after faking his death. He also lived on the island, so if Kinzo died
after the three month estimate in the previous year, he would've been in prime position to hide it from the rest of the descendants and convince Genji and Nanjo to play along.

Genji seems to have similar age and build as Kinzo, making him an ideal impersonator.
Faceless corpses could be either straight up dolls or people from the Ushiromiya sponsored orphanage, prepared specifically for the event.
Kanon could've been killed by one of the people who faked their death on the first 6 murders, no one pursued the person who ran out of the boiler room.
Not 100% sure how the scene with Eva placing the receipt on the door worked, but if Genji saw it from the outside he could've put it back after he impersonated Kinzo in front of Natsuo.
Kinzo not being able to see Beatrice is a way to say that he was unable to see the plot being formed.
Felt like the first episode didn't give enough information about the motives of Rudolph and Kyrie, their corpses being possible fakes doesn't make sense to me since Krauss doesn't need their cooperation.

 

[flyingjohn]

If you are gonna go through all the episodes then be wary of the final episode.
The author had a nervous breakdown when his friend died so take the finale episode with a big grain of salt.
The 7th episode literally spells out what happened.

 

[rrc2soft]

I find the final episode in manga form much, much better than the game.

In addition, there is a YouTube video that explains all the mysteries in a very satisfactory way (Umineko deaths explained). Watch it once you finish the series.

 

[Bohrain]

I wonder how close or far off I am so far with my guesses. It probably depends on how much Ryuukishi uses the same red herring techniques Agatha Christie did, since I'm mostly familiar with the classic detective novels she wrote.

Second episode cont:

Natsuhi's line with Krauss about them having Genji and Nanjo on their side to deal with father and preventing the other siblings from seeing Kinzo makes even more convinced about him being dead since
the beginning. Or it wasn't that literal and I'm being a retard.
Was Natsuhi in the scheme? Probably not given her reaction to meeting "Kinzo" in the first episode and Krauss not showing her the gold bar until the first night.
Or the meeting with supposed fake Kinzo actually never happened? I have a feeling that any scene without Battler present in the first episode is unreliable to a decree.
Moreover I think the legend about the 10 tons of gold is rubbish. I think Kinzo got his hands on a one single gold bar, made a pile of fakes from whatever and gambled on the fact that the
businessman who was told to pick a random one to analyze was the only real one. It would explain his manic belief that making a gamble with shit odds makes miracles happen, because it did for him.
In hindsight the parts in the first episode about the weird smell in the room where Eva and Hideyoshi died and the boiler room was probably relevant. The people in the hallway didn't smell it before opening the room,
so it makes me think that there was some connection to the boiler room in the bathroom, which would explain how the murderer got out with the chain still intact.
Kinzo's office also had a strong smell. Was it used to mask the smell of his corpse if he was killed a while ago?
Eva and Hideyoshi were probably murdered with something resembling a crossbow, given the described shape of the stakes and the amount of force you'd need to lodge it inside a skull.
Genji's bolded line to Kanon about a special quest appearing makes me think that he took part in something. Probably impersonating Beatrice in front of Maria.

 

[Bohrain]

Some of my initial assumptions about the culprit need to be revised it seems.

Second episode, first words in red:

Kanon submitting to Beatrice and Shannon doing the reverse is probably an allegory to how both of them cooperated with the culprit.
Neither Krauss or Natsuhi has been present in any scenes with Beatrice so far.
Just realized that all the loops don't necessarily play out the same. But what are the common denominators? I assume the mastermind is the same, as well as the total number of people in the island.
So if there are 18 pieces, but Kinzo was already dead, would that mean that there in fact was a Beatrice impostor on the island? Or possibly someone else?
The fact that Beatrice can't enter Kinzo's suite means something. Similar thing with Natsuhi's room in the first episode. Maybe the fact he could tell apart someone who poses as Beatrice?
Also who posed for the painting of Beatrice?
I assumed Gohda is just one of the people who get killed, but he too was one of the faceless corpses, meaning his death in the first episode was questionable to assume.
His role in this is probably impossible to determine according to what I currently know.
Ok, loops don't play out the same. In the chapel no one's face was crushed and the corpses were explicitly stated to not be dolls. But it is noticeable that Nanjo wasn't there to confirm the time of death.
Moreover if we assume the ones with partially intact faces in ep 1 were real corpses and first 6 died here died for real we can narrow out some people.
Krauss, Natsuhi, Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolph, Kyrie and Shannon seem to have died in either round. Assuming the rest of the deaths were real, Rosa and Gohda are the two suspicious ones.
Beatrice handed the letters in front of Maria and Rosa. If we assume Maria as a gullible retard who will believe in witches no matter what and Rosa as the culprit, it would explain a lot.
Moreover, Maria's father's name and face hasn't been revealed. Could it be Gohda?
Gohda being the culprit actually makes a lot of sense for the first 6 kills. Being able to violently kill 6 people at once isn't feasible. Poison on the other hand is very viable and Gohda is the chef.
Nanjo isn't specialized enough to be able to tell the cause of death, so if the corpses were messed up after the poisoning the cause of death would be obscured.
Moreover, it was specifically mentioned that Rosa was only vomiting her stomach acid, even though she too was in the dinner table. She either deliberately didn't eat or vomited it out in advance.
Given that the children weren't killed, the poison was probably in the dessert that was divided. But how was Shannon in killed in the first loop then? Though if Rosa and Gohda ganged up on her after
poisoning three quests, it would be feasible to assume a violent death.
Beatrice in school uniform is met by Shannon, Rosa, Maria and Kyrie. Maria is gullible, Rosa is a possible culprit. Shannon interacted with her in the VIP room, was she actually posing as her outside?
Also she never gave any name to Kyrie, another case of Shannon posing as her? Or Kanon as he had no alibi again. The scene with Beatrice in the chapel before the murders
probably didn't happen, as Kyrie wouldn't accept the existence of witches.
The last person to see Kanon and Jessica alive is Gohda, who said he was leaving to attend Rosa. Jessica was having an asthma attack without her pipe. And since it was established in the first loop that Kanon
isn't physically strong, Gohda could've easily killed them both.
Kinzo is meeting both Shannon and Genji. Meaning he is actully alive? Fuck.
Three gold bars in the chapel and it was generally locked up. Assuming they are real, were they in there to begin with and was Krauss unaware of it? Does the treasure actually exist in the island?
Using the occult angle to prop up the murders makes sense for Rosa since she'd know exactly what kind of things Maria would recognize.
First words in red, the chapel door. Many holes as far as I can see. Maria was sleeping when Rosa took the envelope that allegedly had the key. It could've been taken and put back earlier.
Moreover she had an envelope, not a visible key. They could've been swapped at any point.

 

[Bohrain]

Finished the second episode.

Second episode, closure:

Seems like I more or less guessed right how the first words in red would work out.
When they talk about the gold bars not being in the visitors luggage, I recall Rosa insisting on carrying her own luggage in the beginning. If the two bars were brought in she is the most likely one to do so.
Also the one who carried the luggage was Gohda.
Shannon being hit in the back seems easy enough to do during her ashtma attack. I'm still convinced it was Gohda who killed both, though I don't know where Kanon's body was moved.
I knew this one guy a decade ago who was really into this and asking him about if red words are the objective truth, but him saying golden words are that. Is red truth limited to one loop while golden applies to all of them?
I assume golden words don't come until very later on, because I don't recall the anime adaptation having anything like that.
The part where they found dying Kanon really threw me out of the loop. According to words in red he was killed in the VIP room. And I already suspected Rosa, but this kind of accusation is always meant to be a red herring.
So the croaker isn't actually Kanon?
I see, it's another meta scene, same as the chapel one.
Battler's realization about the hidden door red words doesn't apply to hidden hidey holes was a surprise to me. I'm guessing something like that was used in the first loop with the murders of Eva and Hideyoshi.
...and Beatrice completely curbs that out. Damn this actually written pretty well.
Nanjo's and Kumasawa's deaths were too abstract with only meta scene as description. Were the three servants all in it or what exactly happened?
I can't get a read on the meta events, not enough detail of what the murder scene looks like and such.
Sweet scent described to come from Kinzo's suite again. Does he smoke weed?
I am sure Beatrice walking around naked Battler on a leash has some deep meaning regards to the mystery.
Really don't like the banquet part, this kind of medium doesn't suit long action scenes. And I know the action to be pointless.
Battler only met Kinzo in a meta scene. Which again, makes me doubt that he lived. Or at least until he recited his will.
The fact that the deaths are in ordered batches makes me think that it's made so to fool the reader that certain amount of people die in certain order. Some of those deaths are faked and some are done in different order.
After the 2nd loop I'm mostly convinced that Rosa and Gohda are the main culprits, as they seemed to be alive long enough. But the deaths described through meta events felt too vague to me.
Come to think of it, did Bernkastel's line about the spoon in the first witch teatime event have any significance?

 

[Bohrain]

Third episode start:

Eva flashbacks and stuff, doesn't seem too relevant so far.
Well now we got something. Kinzo threw his signet ring out of the window, so essentially anyone could've put the wax seals for the letters.
The meta character Ronove catches the ring, since Genji's family name was Ronoue I assume he got the ring. If Genji had the ring my speculation about Kinzo being dead might still hold true.
Ronove being subservient to Beatrice and handing her the ring seems like an allegory of Genji working for the culprit.
So far this loop seems to play out the same as the first one.
Yes, same loop but somewhat different perspective.
It's straight up said by Battler that Kanon's death in the boiler room could've been someone who faked his death earlier. I suspected that, but now I'm unsure because usually they omit direct accusations that actually hold true.
Rosa suggested them having drinks in the sibling gathering. Method of delivering poison? Gohda delivered the pitcher. The content of the phone call were omitted, but it feels like they would have to cooperate if poisoning took place.
It's strange that Rosa is the only sibling without an acute need for money. But on the other hand it's also the thing that would get the others the jump on each other.
I don't think there is a 19th person. But the fact remains that Battler never meets Kinzo in a non-meta event, same thing with the supposed Beatrice Kyrie, Maria and Rosa saw. But while Genji keeping up the pretense of him being alive is plausible,
I have a harder time believing that Nanjo would keep up the dupe that Kinzo is alive.
The little details like the vomit and the luggage in the second loop suggest Rosa being the culprit.

 

[Bohrain]

Third ep cont.

Beatrice refusing to the number of people in the island in red is interesting. Is the real number 17 like I've been thinking or something else?
Her explanation of discarding her flesh body and being forced into a homunculus makes me think that Kinzo's mistress killed herself, but her eggs were harvested at some point
and a test tube baby was born. Or she just killed herself after giving birth. Probably the latter since this probably happened at least a decade before 1986.
But who is the kid? Battler's mom died so it could be him. Kanon also didn't reveal his name in the second loop, so it could be him. Or Shannon.
Battler being his dad's half sibling is a bit too spicy, so I lean towards Kanon or Shannon being child of the mistress.
Oh, so the mistress actually died after escaping with child Rosa.
Rosa calling for a doctor would suggest that Nanjo came to know about the mistress and posthumous birth. It would probably explain any antipathy towards Kinzo.
If 5 people are supposed to be left alive, it would probably mean the kids + the culprit.
"No more than 18 people in the island." So x<=18. I knew it.
"Kinzo was chosen as the first sacrifice." Either dead from the get-go or at the very least the order of the murders isn't what they are implied by the sacrifices in the epitaph.
I really dislike these overtly long meta combat scenes, they are so pointless.
That's it, I'm skipping this meta fight with the 7 sisters. I don't care if I miss something relevant.
Just realized that the unmodded version of the game doesn't have character name fields, so I'm probably not supposed to know the family names of Genji and Gohda at this point.
I did speculate Kumasawa being the mistress early on, but it made little sense after seeing the real thing getting killed. I don't get the immediate implication of her being the older
meta Beatrice. Young one awakening the old one seems to have some kind of implication to real events.
Great, another stretched out meta fight.
Well it seems like this is a different loop after all.
Stench coming from the boiler room mentioned again. Kinzo's corpse is my bet.
No corpses yet, but I'm guessing the servants die first in this loop. Not seen Rosa or Gohda yet. I wonder what Nanjo's role exactly is in this.
oh wow it's a schrödinger's cat episode
4 winchesters in this round.
I assumed in the first loop that Kinzo's corpse was burned to hide the fact it was decomposing already. But I guess there is also the insane possibility that Genji is dead and Kinzo is impersonating him.
Maria being sleepy seems relevant. My guess is that if Rosa is the culprit, she had Maria draw the magic circles.
I haven't given much thought about the riddle since I thought it might've been a Japanese wordplay. But could the "shore the two speak of" be the one the mistress died on?
Finally some details on the murders. One master key and guest room key on Shannon's corpse. My guess is that the culprit placed a key on each corpse in an order that makes it look like it's
a series of locked rooms. But what happened with the last one assuming this was done 5 times? Hiding in the room or going out without a master key? Also I like this background tune.
Shannon's corpse wasn't discovered immediately, she was behind a sofa or something. If the culprit was one of the people who broke into the room the master key could've been slipped into
her pocket before "finding" her. But that seems awfully risky.
Instead of saying "All deaths were homicides" she said "none of the deaths were suicides". So natural death and accident aren't ruled away. My guess is that this applied to Kinzo.
Kyrie goes over the epitaph. The river interpretation with the name having 'ri' or 'sato' is probably a clear hint. My guess is that this refers to Beatrice's child. Since Shannon is Sayo,
and Maria is ruled out I'm guessing that it refers to Kanon. His real name is probably Satoshi or Satoko.
If the sweetfish are migrating fish like salmon, it could refer to Beatrice being a foreigner.
Six chosen by the key. If it's a name it's probably Beatrice's kid. But I'm guessing that the number of letters would refer to them being read in kana. Or maybe not given
that Kinzo wanted all his descendants to have a western name. But then the hidden name would probably a western one as well. I probably wouldn't be able to solve the riddle even with the name.

 

[Bohrain]

Third ep end.

Eva having a loli tulpa seems like a weird detail. Wonder if it has any extra implications besides making her inner monologue a dialogue?
The key being a six letter word would suggest to Satoko being Kanon's name. Assuming I guessed right. Though it would make more sense for the name to sound western. I just can't think of any other male names
with "ri" or "sato" in them. Wait, isn't Satoko a female name?
Loli Eva thought Rosa was pretending to be dumb. I wonder if her retelling of the Beatrice's escape was completely true. At the very least I'd expect that the aftermath was omitted.
"Can be read in six characters?" Does this mean something being less in kana/kanji but more in latin alphabets?
She actually found the gold. There is no indication of Eva knowing the true name of Kanon, so the key is probably something else.
The gold is actually real? Or is this just a meta event?
The wording "you shall attain the power of the Golden Land's treasures, once and for the last time" sounds ominous. It doesn't sound like it's describing a hoard of gold if you can just attain it once.
It feels like Eva is becoming a culprit with the way the meta event of Beatrice acknowledging her loli form is working out. Is the culprit the same in all loops?
Rosa's sedative bottle was empty. Were they used on Maria last night?
Maria calmed down immediately when she was allowed to see the rose. Come to think of it, she was the only one alive in the room where three people were killed in the first loop. A 9-year-old can't be the culprit right?
Maria seems to have been strangled and Rosa thrown in the canopy.
I wonder if Beatrice passing the torch can be interpreted as the original culprit getting killed and replaced by another. Assuming Hideyoshi and Eva really were in their room, the murderer of Rosa and Maria is someone else
who was alive at the time and not present. Maybe Nanjo?
Rosa's death is weird. She had a gun on her and Maria was with her so she should be hard to ambush. Did the culprit tamper with her gun beforehand or otherwise know it wasn't useable?
If the culprit isn't the same on each loop this becomes a lot harder to figure out. Rosa still makes the most sense to me, but she is undeniably murdered in the third loop. Did people other than Eva and Rosa solve the riddle in any
loop? Kyrie would be the most likely one to do so. Battler is also among the last survivors on each loop so far. Is he really Ushiromiya Battler, or someone who knows enough of his mannerism to pretend to be him?
Rosa didn't fire even once and the gun was functional. But was it her gun or was it swapped by the culprit? Then the culprit would also have to have a gun. Krauss and Rudolph are the most suspicious ones here.
Eva-Beatrice seems like a red herring. Because the scenes are focused on Eva we are left in the dark in regards to Rudolph and Krauss.
The fact that there was no magic circle drawn to indicate the murders of Rosa and Maria could suggest that the other culprit realized only afterwards that they should've left one to indicate that occult shit is happening.
According to Ronove he could've stated in red that Hideyoshi was with Eva at the time of the murder. So they aren't the culprits at least in this round.
The first 6 were killed with a projectile weapon. Probably a similar device that was used to kill Eva and Hideyoshi in the first loop.
Wait, what is this about Kyrie having a kid called Ange? Don't tell me she is the actual 18th person in the island?
The bunny girls are "chiester" sisters because the murders happened with the winchersters I assume.
The bit about Lucifer having to gouge into someone else's kill probably suggests that they were killed by another method and the stake was stuck in the body posthumously.
Now that I think about, Rosa getting skewered may have happened posthumously too. If she was simply shot on range, Maria was strangled and Rosa's corpse was thrown into the canopy it would explain the murders.
Also given that no one heard a gunshot it was probably done with the crossbow thing that was used in the first set of murders.
I think the meta reasoning that the corpses have been left in a cleaner state because of a different witch is simply because of a different culprit.
Meta Beatrice talking to George, this is unusual.
My guess is that Nanjo is the other culprit in this round.
Were the sedatives in Rosa's purse fed to Eva so she wouldn't be a threat while the other people were killed?
I wager the guest house has some kind of a hidden path to the main building.
07151129, does it relate to the epitaph? "6 chosen by the key", does it the first or last 6 numbers, or something else?
If we take first 6 it's 071511. "tear apart two who are close", so the two 1's, they would be included if it was the 6 last numbers, so we have 0715. "those who remain shall praise my noble name", so no changes?
But after that the gouging sounds like removing numbers on order. But it happens 5 times and we only have 4 numbers. Unless numbers are added after taking six from the start, this doesn't work.
They speculate it being a date since the first half is Battler's birthday. I don't think it's a date since they ruled out the servants and Ange too.
Gun fires accidentally. Rudolph did fire Rosa's gun earlier, but I wonder if there ever was a confirmation that those aren't blanks.
Nanjo has a sick grandchild. I wonder if that will be relevant. Interestingly enough we don't know Maria's father's name or Kyrie's maiden name...
If Jessica only heard this and stays alive I think it's a sign Nanjo just faked his death here.
George coming back for Shannon was probably because the culprit said that she was actually alive, while providing the way in. Nanjo is suspicious again, because he confirmed the deaths so he'd have the most authority.
I know this meta stuff doesn't really matter, but it feels like the loli Eva was manufactured solely to make Beatrice look better in the eyes of Battler.
Dead witness testimonies, this feels like Ace Attorney already.
Hideyoshi stayed in the room during the murder of Rosa and Maria. But the statement in red confirmed nothing about Eva.
In the three murders it's never confirmed that the stakes killed them. They could've been shot and the stakes lodged on them after the fact. I think the culprit gave everyone blanks and was the only one who
possessed real shots. Hence why murdering people with superior numbers was viable.
Using red to suggest that Kyrie was the culprit, that's a new one.
Change is Kyrie's behavior is an interesting thing. So it seems like she suddenly thought getting something from the mansion was necessary.
"Kyrie did not leave anything written down." So I assume they need to find the thing Kyrie was really looking for from the mansion?
Did she smoke? And is the boat ticket for the trip to Rokkenjima or something else?
I think I know where this is going for. Eva hated cigarette smoke, so it wouldn't make any sense Hideyoshi to smoke if he had actually stayed with her in the room. So Kyrie wanted to go to the mansion because she either
didn't want to stay alone with Eva or she didn't want Rudolph to go alone with Hideyoshi.
Eva is taken off the hook with the word in red, same thing with Battler. This just confirms that Nanjo is the culprit.
What, Nanjo is actually dead? So it's Jessica then?
Jessica is ruled out. Did Nanjo die through trap or accident?
Fuck this is getting spicy. At this point the only thing I can think of that due to Kinzo being dead already the island had 18 people including one unseen person who killed at least Nanjo.
Wait, if that is Ange how come she is Battler's age when she is supposed to be like 6-year-old?

 

[Bohrain]

I really like episode 4 so far. It feels like now it's the time this is properly beginning. Also it seems like I did figure out some things correctly so far.

4 ep. beginning:

So Ange is older because she from 12 years from the future.
Eva surviving with the gold seems like one alternative timeline, similar to the end of first loop where only corpses remained with Maria's letter in the bottle.
So Ange is going to prove witches not real with FACTS and LOGIC?
She was sick during the ordeal. Nanjo screamed out about his grandchild being sick, is the doctor Kyrie's father?
Ange seems to be less of a bitch than Battler. Thematically neat that the Ange from the timeline where she is destined to become a witch in the public eye is working to prove witches don't exist.
Nanjo doesn't seem to be her grandfather since he was staying with Kyrie's father during the incident.
Now Maria is also a meta character and the tip screen has her as an apprentice witch?
Given how dimwitted Maria is I bet the stuffed animal was actually something Rosa just picked up from the store when she was coming from work. Actually I vaguely recall the anime having a scene where Maria sees
multiple ones in some store.
Fuck this Maria segment is so depressing.
Who is the guy with the ponytail?
So Kyrie's maiden name was Sumadera.
Wonder if this Okonogi guy had anything to do with the murders. It's always a process of elimination thing that when you only have a set amount of named characters.
Kyrie's sister too.
And another new guy. Process of elimination no longer feels like a thing.
Looks like they are suspicious of Krauss not letting them to see Kinzo in this loop.
I WAS RIGHT DAMN IM SMART... or was I?
Words in blue are now a thing. It feels like this is the point where this thing has really started.
The scene in Kinzo's study seems like a meta event. Heh, Goldsmith, attaining wizardhood made him jewish. I assume this will lead to Genji or someone else impersonating Kinzo later on.
It seems like the culprit or at a conspirator has fake or meta events during each episode.

 

[Bohrain]

4 ep. cont.

Why is Rosa playing into Maria's sperging? This feels out of character.
Ok, so Rosa's overtime is bullshit to some extend and she is just sleeping around.
God Maria's life was miserable. I wish they'd go for the murder mystery stuff already though.
Ok the bottled messages weren't written by Maria. I wonder if it was the actual 18th person?
So it's two loops that were written in the two bottles.
Meta Maria is listed as an ally of Beatrice. Sounds like Ange is going to have a falling out with her eventually.
Lambda is coming to sabotage Ange's process in order to keep the loops going on perpetually.
Ange is just a cynical version of Maria. This entire game would be far better if these meta furniture didn't exist. They add absolutely nothing to the mystery narrative.
Rosa going absolutely insane in front of the welfare officer certainly wasn't the thing I was expecting.

 

[Bohrain]

Reeeeeally starting to get tired on the extensive meta events.

4 ep end.

Ok I was expecting Kinzo to appear without servants. But Nanjo isn't there is he? Oh wait he is.
Wonder if Gohda's refreshments were relevant. I refuse to believe that something that has been foreshadowed since the beginning would be false. This might be just a big meta event, with bunch of people dying
and the survivors claiming Kinzo did appear.
My guess is that it's a similar case to the first 6 deaths in loops 1 and 2. They were tricked into drinking poison or something that effectively paralyzes so a single person could kill a room full of people.
If Virgilia represents Kumasawa in the meta events and Ronove does the same for Genji, whose alias Gaap is? Given that Eva already had one, it's probably either Kyrie or Rosa.
Gohda is the most suspicious one around given how he got away and bought the pitcher that probably had something in it. Assuming all of those people even were in the dining hall in reality.
Everything Battler isn't seeing directly is probably bullshit and only what he ends up witnessing is the fact, that much is clear by now.
If the 5 people in the jail die before meeting Battler, I reckon this could all be just unreliable narration until we see the corpses.
Battler's side is hearing the phonecall, Krauss just says he doesn't know what happened to Natsuhi. I think this much is real. Other kids also talked on the phone. Though Nanjo spoke with Kumasawa, which may not have happened.
So lets say that Kumasawa and Gohda are co-conspirators, while the true culprit is either one of them or Krauss. No words in red so far so we can't confirm how many people have actually died yet.
Nanjo's son makes an appearance.
Nanjo's corpse wasn't found on the third loop. Highly suspicious.
Key with a number plate A112. And a magnetic card with "Members" typed in English. And a familiar number series. So it's a safe-deposti PIN.
100 million yen in cash. Aaaand the letter matches the handwriting of "Beatrice".
Similar case with Kumasawa's son, number plate A113.
Oh, Ange got one too. I wonder if her relatives ended up stealing it?
WHAT WAS IN THE DISPLAY CASE AAAA
It sounds like Krauss is the culprit in this round and at least some of the servants are cooperating. If Kyrie really was in the same place Krauss was probably just acting.
Assuming Gohda and/or Kumasawa is cooperating with the culprit, they were probably instructed to go to the shed and open it once they get a signal or something. Then the guy outside could've betrayed them and murdered them.
I wonder how many people are cooperating with the culprit (I'm assuming it's Krauss in this round) voluntarily and if any are tricked or threatened to act.
The tests for the kids seem like just a fancy way to separate them and pick them off one-by-one. This loop really doesn't give a lot of info about who has actually died, in what time and what the crime scenes look like.
I think the notion that more demons and other furniture are being summoned is just a way to tell that there is less detail of the scenes so they are obscured by the meta garbage.
You know, given that it's the meta characters giving Jessica and George the choice who will die feels really irrelevant because you don't even know if they really were presented any choice. I really can't enjoy the drama
aspect that much because if you take the classic mystery aspect seriously, you sort of have to actively discard it.
Man this escape sequence takes forever and you know it won't matter in any shape or form. Skipping~
How much of the phonecall was real? Was it really Jessica? Did she really talk about goats and such? If she was alive at that point she was probably injured already and the culprit smashed her head posthumously.
Kyrie is bullshitting either voluntarily or involuntarily. Yeah, she is asking him to not in any scenario to ask anyone to demonstrate magic.
Wonder if the caller is simply faking the voices? It seems unlikely, but only one person at a time was speaking on the phone. It could alternatively be a mix of cooperators on both ends. Like say Battler was speaking to
Kyrie who was threatened, Krauss was the culprit and George and Kumagawa were just pretending to speak to someone. It's definitely suspicious that this is all handled through the phone instead of Battler seeing anyone in person
besides Kumagawa and Gohda.
The "Beatrice" calling Battler probably narrows things down. A young woman or someone who can at least pretend to sound like one. Shannon is probably the most suspicious one since Battler hasn't seen her corpse. Kanon might be
a stretch, but he comes off as fairly androgynous. Jessica, maybe Rosa. No corpses seen in this round so hard to narrow anyone down.
I haven't really given it any thought previously, but would it be possible for Kanon and Shannon impersonate each other? Probably a lot easier for Kanon to personate her, but not the other way around because of the breasts.
On the other hand I think Shannon and George had separate hotel rooms in the date flashback. ...is Shannon even confirmed to be female at any point? We are really getting into looney tunes territory here. But if you think about
it, the Ushiromiyas all confirm each other since they've known each other from childhood and the other servants are too old to pass as crossdressers. Was Kanon's name hidden not because it was the key to the riddle but because
he is actually the she of the siblings?
Kumasawa and Gohda were dead like I expected. George was lured to somewhere alone and shot.
Assuming the scene with "Beatrice" in the balcony isn't a meta event, there really is someone posing as her. Shannon or Kanon is my guess.
What exactly is Battler's sin? Knowing anime tropes it's probably some promise he made as an elementary schooler that he obviously forgot but someone else didn't.
The "sin" sounds like something that happened between Battler and the Beatrice impostor. I think Kanon wasn't employed back then so it would be Shannon then?
Ah, so Battler is an impostor or something like that? Is there some technicality here like Asumu not being at the family registry when Battler was born or something?
Boat operators, Kinzo, Kumasawa, Nanjo and Genji knew about the other mansion. So if the mistress Beatrice was pregnant at any point Nanjo was probably aware of it.
Kuwadorian was only 2km away from the mansion. Jesus, given as someone who grew up in the boonies you'd think that people would explore around their household a bit more, especially given they owned the entire island.
Given how Ange was expecting to see her family and the Kuwadorians were foreshadowed to have an ambush ready in Rokkenjima, I have a bad feeling about this.
Oh god so Maria's autistic shriek was just her way to conjure her mom to love her.
So Battler is Rudolph's child but not Asumu's? Is Kyrie his actual mother or how does this work?
Shame, Ange just gets written out.

 

[Bohrain]

5th episode starts with some interesting twists. And no time consuming meta shit so far.

4th episode tea time events, 5th episode beginning.

In the 4th tea time Battler sees the corpses of the 4th loop. First 6 were probably shot, Maria seems to have been poisoned. Culprit seemed to feel some kind of sympathy towards Maria.
Jessica's phone call seemed like a recording.
Kyrie was probably poisoned and then the thing was lodged to her head. Come to think of it, was there any indication that the phone calls were spoken live instead of being recordings?
Nanjo's and Shannon's corpses. Interestingly enough Kanon's corpse hasn't been found yet.
Kinzo's corpse is in the same place as in every other loop. Safe to assume he was dead before all this began.
Kumasawa and Gohda were both shot, the hanging seems like just a setup. From the sound of it, they were in the scheme and were told to play dead by staging the hanging, but they were shot from the window.
I wonder if they were alive when Battler first saw them hanging?
Only way the words in red make sense is that Kanon is one of the corpses seen so far. In other words it seems like the servants impersonating each other seems likely.
So George went through the window in the third game and someone locked it after him? Was it Nanjo or someone else?
So Kinzo is a hereditary title, meaning the heir (assuming Krauss) came to the gathering?
This tea time seems surprisingly conclusive, it feels like a twist is coming up.
Confirmation that the 18th person doesn't exist. My gut reaction is that the identities of Kanon/Shannon were switched around, but they both supposedly died in the first murders in the 3rd loop.
They didn't check the room Hidyoshi and Eva died in the first loop? Oh come on, that's just dumb.
Small bombs? Not poison?
Kanon's title is hereditary? What is this?
Seems like I guessed right the pocket retrieval on Shannon's corpse in the third loop.
The Kanon/Shanon debacle seems to be the key to Nanjo's death in loop 3.
So the Answers arc is just Beatrice spelling everything out while having to figure out her actual identity?
Oh, so most of the words in blue were off the mark. I see.
I missed the date when Kinzo passed away. No wait, after loading it looks like it wasn't stated.
Krauss being dumb enough to fall for several obvious scams is fucking hilarious. I can't believe Natsuhi was actually the smart one of the two.
So 5 people were aware of Kinzo being dead; Krauss, Natsuhi, Kumasawa, Genji and Nanjo. And it was actually Natsuhi who came up with it.
If I understood this right he actually died before the 1985 family conference. Battler states that all the servants knew, but I don't know if that was the case with Gohda.
Natsuhi's son pre-marriage? Oooh it might be Lambda bullshitting. This is interesting. But since Battler isn't actually Asumu's son, Natsuhi could've been suspecting that he was going to blackmail her or something like that.
By riddle does Battler mean the epitaph one? So far I've just thought that it was meant to give everyone a reason to suspect each other because there is gold for grabs. But it's probably something else.
Erika seems like a wildcard. But was Kanon in the scene when she was introduced? I wonder if this is just an impersonator.
Oh, so it's stated that she really is an extra. And they actually show everyone on the same scene.
Calling Bernkastel the witch of savescumming would be more accurate.
Erika is explaining the riddle. Battler states the original thing had 11 or 13 letters. I still don't get it.
I hadn't thought of it so far, but given that someone sent the letters sealed with Kinzo's ring, it probably means the true culprit is among the people who knew Kinzo was dead.
They didn't reveal the epitaph riddle yet. The thing about the family tree, sweetfish and Kinzo enjoying his youth made me think that what if the key is Kinzo's original family name before he was chosen
as the Ushiromiya family head? River is the family, sweetfish refers to a migrating fish coming back and Kinzo actually enjoyed his freedom before the burden of the family business was forced upon him.
But this would mean that the player wouldn't be able to figure it out exactly at this point since his original name isn't mentioned.

 

[Bohrain]

5th episode continued

So if Rosa's hint is to be trusted, the key is a town Kinzo lived in. And the twilights signify days travel from there.
Battler meets Kinzo in the dark, but he doesn't say anything. Could be just Genji dressed up as him.
It is confirmed that the mountain of gold is real.
Wait wait, when Virgilia stated in red that the gold belonged to Beatrice "she had absolutely no need to make someone ..find it etc" the "she" portion wasn't stated in red. So Beatrice is a dude?
So by Battler's reasoning, the purpose of the epitaph murders is to torment someone. Which would be none other than Battler himself, as he is always amongst the last survivors. It also makes sense since he hasn't been in Rokkenjima
for 6 years. And it lines up with what the Beatrice said in the 4th loop when Battler met her.
Come to think of it, since 4th loop seems to confirm that there is a person dressed up as Beatrice, does it also happened in the 2nd loop and Kyrie did in fact speak to her?
Now it was confirmed the goal is not revenge or instilling fear. This is confusing.
Now I wonder if this blackmailing over the phone thing is happening at all. From what I've seen Battler himself is the only reliable witness, so this might be just something Natsuhi will explain
after the fact if she ends up murdering someone.
Kanon opened the door after the stranger knocked and picked up the letter. Was the letter really there or was it a sleight of hand thing?
So there was an adopted baby from the Fukuin house a year before Jessica was born. If I remember right Shannon is supposed to be 19 and Kanon is something like 16-17 since Jessica's friends at school noted him to be younger.
Meaning if the adopted child, the missing son calling and omitted "she" from Virgilia's red statement all refer to the same person, it would suggest that Shannon is a crossdressing man. Wild.
Wait a second, does the time for the baby's appearance coincide with the year the mistress Beatrice died? It would explain why Kinzo was so open for an outsider to be adopted as his grandchild.
Natsuhi claims that the servant and the baby fell off a cliff and died. But did it really happen?
Kinzo's words about empty vessel and such after hearing the baby dying would suggest that it was infact Beatrice's child. So did the actual baby die, but someone thinks he is the child or what is really happening?
So the phonecall is just Lambda tampering with the game similar to how Bernkastel is interfering with Erika.
I wonder what the murder weapon is when their heads are basically cleaved from the neck.
I've been thinking about the thing about Shannon being the culprit and also some kind of crossdresser. In some cases it would make sense that Kanon dies dressed up as her and she starts impersonating Kanon, like in the
4th loop. But something like the 3rd loop where they both supposedly die makes me confused. I'd have go over all the loops to make sure, but something like two people impersonating each other would have to happen for this
to make any sense.
What is the significance of the packing tape in the door? Just something that indicates it was opened?

 

[Bohrain]

Episode 5, end.

There isn't really any point in this farce about Battler trying to prove that Kinzo could've been in the study. But at least it's entertaining.
I do like it how the metanarration interacts with the mystery in this one. There are no long fight scenes divorced from the events to the extend they were in the previous episodes.
So Battler isn't in control until the second morning and he is puppeted by either Lambda or Bern until then.
Erika is actually checking everyone's location. Kids sans Battler and Nanjo, Kumasawa and Gohda went to the questhouse before the conference. Krauss, Natsuhi and Genji were in the second floor corridor, others in dining hall.
The letter in the hall could've been just a sleight of hand thing by Kanon, but I can't think of a decent explanation for the knock. Everyone did hear it in the dining hall, so a recording probably wouldn't fool them.
Words in red confirm that the letter wasn't dropped there, but Lambda didn't say that no one touched it. I think my suspicion is right.
According to red words whatever the knock was wasn't made by anyone in the mansion. But could someone have say, told Maria to do a little prank like that with a cassette player or something?
Blue truth for outside influence for letter invalid, but valid for knocking sound. So Kanon pretending to pick up the letter and him or someone else telling one of the people in the guest house to setup a contraption
seems to be the case.
Oh, so it wasn't a recording and it has to be specifically done by hand, but no one who could've done weren't there at the time? So did someone on the outside just knock a different door?
I expected Natsuhi's rambling about autumn to be irrelevant, but she stated in red that she only told Shannon that she likes autumn. Well Shannon could've told that to someone else. But it does make her suspicious.
Closet scene. Lot of thing to note. Natsuhi only saw a glimpse of Hideyoshi and heard him cry. What state was he in when he came to the room? How long did it take for Eva to try to open the door? Could the murderer
have hidden or escaped from a window, as it was established that it's possible to descend using the drain pipe?
Seems like they didn't check the room properly given that Natsuhi wasn't found. So the murderer could've been hiding there too.
Erika seems to be doing the whole detective spelling out the events thing now.
Wow it's an actual list they are going through systematically.
It's getting comical how often Erika is putting paper slips between the doorframes.
"She kept her ear against the wall for the whole night." And sealed all the windows in the questhouse from the outside.
Virgilia said it outright that Natsuhi is the culprit, which felt like a red herring from the start.
Irritating to see that Battler is trying to question the established things head on instead of working around them.
Kinzo's corpse is in the second floor of the mansion?
I'm skipping Natsuhi's extended humiliation.
So Natsuhi confessed the dead baby event on the grave of the servant's husband.
Battler seems to be the witch now and Erika is the opponent.
The interesting part here is that even Battler isn't considered to be a reliable witness since he claimed to have seen Kinzo in the 5th game.

 

[Bohrain]

Episode 6, beginning.

I didn't have the patch installed for the last one. This one started with the marriage ceremony. Two new androgynous demons, one with a feminine and one with a masculine voice. Strong hunch that these are meta
representatives of Kanon and Shannon.
Hey, we are getting Ange scenes again. I thought her bodyguard shot the Sumadera goons and Ange herself got shot by her aunt. Or maybe it did happen and this is an alternate take.
How come Tohya didn't appear in the 4th episode?
She mentioned the thing in the glass case.
Ooh a new witch. Or furniture?
So we can't read this from Battler's viewpoint anymore because as the game master he knows the truth.
Is Featherine a reference to some Higurashi character? Hanyuu perhaps?
They are talking about what Battler's sin could possibly be. I wager he did or said something to the culprit (which I'm assuming to be Shannon at this point) to develop some sort of grudge.
Battler isn't good at this built-your-own-Beatrice thing.
Kanon's real name is Yoshiya. Meaning his name has neither "sato" or "ri" in it. Did the epitaph hint refer to a name of a town or Beatrice?
They showed the kanji but I didn't screencap it originally. Maria's name had the one that looked like a cross and something else, can't be sure here.
Two cuts from the top and one from the side. This was easy enough to figure out that it's probably foreshadowing for some locked room murder.
So they thought outside the box by thinking it could interpreted as american cheese. Gross.
I'm guessing the five coins in three cups solution is just throwing three coins to one cup, one coin to each remaining two and put the other cup on top of the other cup.
...what is with Erika's fascination to chopsticks? Is this some trait Rika had in Higurashi?
We seem to have some sort of a locked room metamonster in the this episode.
Shannon's line about embarrassing herself when trying to impress a boy with makeup might be quite vital. After all there is no indication that this happened between her and George.
Is the butterfly brooch actually relevant in a non-symbolic way?
If my assumption that Shannon is actually a dude is correct it would explain the need for another miracle for her and George to marry.
Is the brooch the item that allows Shannon/Kannon impersonate each other?
"Those who make others believe are witches." It's an apt description. Especially if you think that the culprit is a witch and the objects/people who helped at the dupe are her furniture.
"Furniture created by magic", what does it mean?
Does Battler act like a dick towards Beato because he knows the only way to make her like she were is to abuse and neglect her?
A trial the cousins have to face in order to stay together with the servants. Can George withstand the dick reveal?
Zepar and Furfur. Meta versions of Kanon and Shannon.
From their descriptions it looks like it's implied that Kanon is a girl and Shannon is a guy. Zepar is the one with masculine voice, but he has the impenetrable barrier, which Shannon had in meta events. Furfur sounds
feminine, but has the weapon that overcomes barriers.
Wait, or is the implication here that during the meta events where those two demonstrated those abilities, it was in fact a hint that one was impersonating the other?
If one is joined the other falls apart. I think this implies that they are the same person or they were impersonating each other. Probably not the former since I think they've been in plenty of scenes together.
Damn, Erika was an aspie who was cheated on.
The outcome of the fight between Eva and George is Eva being dead in the VIP room. I wonder where everyone really was when Eva died? The smoking room doesn't seem to actually exist so the murderer wasn't necessarily George.
This story about Kyrie and Asumu giving birth at the same time doesn't add up. Battler was established to be Rudolph's son, but not related to Asumu. So I'm guessing Asumu too had a stillbirth and Battler is from someone else.
Or did Kyrie pass out and were the babies swapped?
We are led to believe that Kyrie has died, but there is just an unrecognizeable burnt body in Krauss' study. My wager is that it's actually Kinzo with the extra toes removed.

 

[Bohrain]

In this one it legit felt like I either seriously misread something or the words in red simply don't add up. The use of "everyone else" felt like it made several things contradict later on and retroactive additions felt like bullshit. At this point I don't really mind episode 7 spelling things out, since the big reveal at the end would be too tiresome to check if it meant what I thought it would.

Episode 6 end.

So Rosa has 100 million in debt with Maria's father.
The father just left overseas with 100 million yen. So both Rosa and Krauss are completely retarded.
The hatchling Beato is weak to a mirror but not other things that are supposed to repel evil spirits.
So this is just the way the first 6 deaths are handled in this loop.
Rosa and Maria in the parlor, Natsuhi in her own room and (supposed) Kyrie in Krauss's study and Eva in VIP room.
The fact that the parlor door was barred from the inside makes it tricky. In the third loop there was the ring of deaths where one of the people who came
in from the window probably put the master key in Sharon's pocket before they searched her. Not the same trick from the sound of it.
Wow it was Battler in the abandoned room.
Interesting, in the info panel "the cause of death is unknown" because Erika didn't have a chance to examine the bodies yet.
"Illusion of closed door or illusion of crime" I see.
So from what Bernkastel is saying there are no faked deaths here, it's all illusions of closed doors.
The chains are really fucking me over. Keys gave more wiggle room, but chain lock would always mean hiding in the room or the victim locking
himself up before death.
Did Battler's acknowledgement of closed rooms really confirm anything? The part where "until Gohda and others broke into rooms" wasn't said in red.
Were they closed rooms only for a brief moment?
No hiding culprits when they broke into the rooms. And the rooms weren't tampered to be locked from the outside.
"No murder was committed after the deconstruction of the closed rooms" was denied. Either a red herring or someone was killed after a break-in.
Only the detective, the men + Gohda entered the rooms when they broke in.
So it is confirmed that the men didn't kill them. Interestingly enough, Erika was excluded.
They are speculating that there must be multiple culprits to enable the murders of both Maria and Rosa. But nothing really indicates that
Rosa and Maria were murdered at the same time. Probably either one was killed first and the other lured in afterwards.
Erika claims that victims themselves constructed the locked rooms and they were preserved until break-in. I think at least the latter is false.
It's hilarious how she falls to the same mystery gimmick murder method thing as Battler.
Battler says that the first twilight is a rehash of an earlier loop. Which I assume refers to the third one. In that one it was the master key
trick. So was the scene tampered after break-in? The first thing I'd think of was locking an open window and pretending it was closed at arrival.
Or was the chain taped into place from the outside, so that it would appear it was set?
Retroactively making the packing tape valid for three rooms. Bit different.
So it was merely an act.
The reason why Erika is goading them to two groups of six is probably so she can use process of elimination to figure out the culprit.
Or since there is no detective proclamation, she is the culprit. But anyhow she knows that Kinzo is dead and the Hideyoshi, Krauss, Rudolp and Gohda
are not the culprit. She can just wait until the murder happens and mix the groups until only the murderer is left out.
Krauss, Rudolf, Jessica, Genji, Kanon and Gohda in one room.
Hideyoshi, George, Shannon, Kumasawa, Nanjo and Erika in other.
In the first group Jessica, Genji and Kanon are potential culprits, in the other George, Shannon, Kumasawa and Nanjo are.
The body confirmation in red is interesting because it's not guaranteed the charred body was actually Kyrie. Meaning she was in the room regardless of whether
she was the corpse or not.
Dancing with the word everyone is pointless for Battler. He could just state in red that there are no 19th living person at the start of the game.
He actually acknowledged that everyone else is in the other room.
Now I guess she called Dlanor to place the tape. I gather she will use one now, see in which room the murder happens, then split again until only the culprit remains.
No, she used two. But will it be enough until the end?
Erika finds a letter on the ground outside between the questhouse and the mansion.
If there was someone faking death in the first round it was Kyrie. If Battler changes the story here it's only a bluff I feel.
What, he was actually faking his death in the first round?
So if she did use the tape on the abandoned room, it would mean she no longer has any left?
Seal is undamaged.
Is he bluffing or not? Actual suspense.
Battler is not on the bed. But this doesn't mean he wasn't dead or his corpse wasn't moved.
What is this bathtub stubb? Is he implying that the body was dissolved?
These retroactive moves feel a bit bullshit.
So he was in the closet but Kyrie went in there instead.
Is she using the "everyone else" in the quest room as red?
Or did Erika murder the people that could've pretended to be dead to make sure there are no surprise actors?
Bingo
So everyone was playing dead. I was under the impression that Kyrie's body was charred to unrecognizeable, but it was apparently just a meta event thing.
The bathroom feels very familiar to the one where Hideyoshi died in the first loop. I never figured it out. Battler stated that the murderer hid there
at the 5th tea time event, but I'm not so sure about that.
The only way out I can think of is dissolving the body down the bathtub drain.
Bernkastel as the monkey with typewriter is an amusing metaphor.
Does the tape actually prevent anyone living from exiting the rooms though? They only ensure that there is undeniable proof that the door was opened. But someone
with a winchester could just open the door, walk to the mansion and shoot Erika between the door.
19 is the age of the true territory lord. Meaning the culprit. At this point I'm convinced it's Shannon.
I don't follow this "SEALS =! CLOSED ROOM" convo.
Ah so it was just the doors that very confirmed to be not tampered. So anyone could've opened the windows to take a piss and do whatever.
And now it's confirmed in red that the windows were sealed.
I was under the impression that deaths were confirmed at the start, but it was probably just Bernkastel's words that weren't in red. But the whole "everyone else
is in the other room" already seemed to rule out people playing dead before Erika even went back to the mansion. It feels like this episode isn't designed properly
or there is some translation error.
And now they are ambigious about whether the windows in the other room were opened or not. But it is the room where "EVERYONE ELSE" was supposed to be.
The flashback was just kid Battler describing his ideal type of girl. Is this really his so called sin?
The stacked cups puzzle was probably foreshadowing this "everyone else on the other room" thing.
I hear that Beato has regained her signature chuckle.
Given that the savior is Kanon, it would seem like Kanon and Shannon were impersonating each other when they were put into the rooms and one who came out was actually
the one dressed up as Shannon.
Not sure if the words in red deny my claim. Probably did considering Beatrice said everyone just used their own names.
Now how did this happen? I'm just confused at this point.
So there were just 16 people in the island. Are Kanon and Shanon truly just a single person? But how does that even work? Were all scenes with them together meta events?
It just seems profoundly odd that people acknowledged that there is both a boy and a girl servant, but they wouldn't be in the same room in any time.
The implication here seems to be that Ange's bodyguard shot her.
Featherine having her little meta talk towards the reader.

 

[Bohrain]

Finished episode 7 and the tea time events too. There weren't really any mysteries left to figure out after 6 so there wasn't any point in writing down notes. Think I'll just revise what vital things I managed to figure out before it was spelled outright and what I didn't.

Spoiler

Kinzo being dead before the thing even began. Fairly simple to figure out if you pay attention to which characters he seems to interact with. Though I did not realize which characters exactly knew before it was spelled out in the 4th episode. I assumed it was just Nanjo, Genji and maybe Krauss.
I did connect the dots between Shannon or Kannon being mistress Beatrice's child and the baby abandoned by Natsuhi. I also thought Shannon and Kannon impersonated each other, which technically is true, but I did not figure out they were the same person before it was outright stated at the end of episode 6 that there were only 16 people on the island. I'm fairly certain you could figure it out relatively early if you pay attention to what scenes Battler is witnessing, whether their bodies are ever confirmed to be in the same room and which people are confirmed to be dead in red. Nanjo's autopsies turned out to be a lot less reliable than I thought.
At the end of episode 4 I was convinced the culprit was Shannon. But only because of the clues related to the motive being related to Battler's supposed sin, as it basically meant the typical trope of promising something as kids and Shannon was the only one around Battler's age that wasn't a relative (to his knowledge). I only had a vague idea that it was possible with the combination of faking death and acting as Kanon or Shannon. But until Rosa's death was confirmed in red in episode 4, I was most confident of her being the culprit.
I could not solve the epitaph riddle, but I did figure it out at least that it was a wordplay that couldn't be solved without being able to read kanji. But even with my limited ability it would've been possible to figure out the Taiwan clue when Krauss mentioned the nuts in episode 5, but I didn't realize it was important. Also I didn't understand that the plate above the chapel door was related to the riddle at all.

 

[rrc2soft]

Finished episode 7 and the tea time events too. There weren't really any mysteries left to figure out after 6 so there wasn't any point in writing down notes. Think I'll just revise what vital things I managed to figure out before it was spelled outright and what I didn't.

Spoiler

Kinzo being dead before the thing even began. Fairly simple to figure out if you pay attention to which characters he seems to interact with. Though I did not realize which characters exactly knew before it was spelled out in the 4th episode. I assumed it was just Nanjo, Genji and maybe Krauss.
I did connect the dots between Shannon or Kannon being mistress Beatrice's child and the baby abandoned by Natsuhi. I also thought Shannon and Kannon impersonated each other, which technically is true, but I did not figure out they were the same person before it was outright stated at the end of episode 6 that there were only 16 people on the island. I'm fairly certain you could figure it out relatively early if you pay attention to what scenes Battler is witnessing, whether their bodies are ever confirmed to be in the same room and which people are confirmed to be dead in red. Nanjo's autopsies turned out to be a lot less reliable than I thought.
At the end of episode 4 I was convinced the culprit was Shannon. But only because of the clues related to the motive being related to Battler's supposed sin, as it basically meant the typical trope of promising something as kids and Shannon was the only one around Battler's age that wasn't a relative (to his knowledge). I only had a vague idea that it was possible with the combination of faking death and acting as Kanon or Shannon. But until Rosa's death was confirmed in red in episode 4, I was most confident of her being the culprit.
I could not solve the epitaph riddle, but I did figure it out at least that it was a wordplay that couldn't be solved without being able to read kanji. But even with my limited ability it would've been possible to figure out the Taiwan clue when Krauss mentioned the nuts in episode 5, but I didn't realize it was important. Also I didn't understand that the plate above the chapel door was related to the riddle at all.

Another good explanation of the riddle, step by step, is here:

https://ramblingsofthegoldenwitch.t...472/mystery-solution-1-how-does-one-solve-the

 

[Jasede]

I thought I'd hijack your thread and spoiler my first time with Higurashi for you. You are supposed to take notes, so I might as well do it here, and I liked reading yours in this thread.
Please note that I do not like to think too much about a VN, so I did not sit down with a pencil to try and come up with anything extremely thought out. This is just all intuition.

After Chapter 1:

Spoiler

What a great episode! I despise all the slice of life but it paid off. Once things happened, I was unsettled and suspicious of everyone until the very end.

There are not enough clues to really come up with any strong theories. My intuition says that this is a Hot Fuzz story - the villagers band together to remove undesirables and cover for each other. But why and how did Rena and Mion get 'switched on'? Drugs? I think it's strongly implied the detective took the syringe at the end. So he probably has something to do with the murders, too.
One theory I had was that maybe the person 'demoned away' is the one that killed the victim, and ran off to start a new life. But that makes no sense - would not someone recognize them?
It seems to me that we cannot believe everything Keiichi says to the player, either. Something is messing with him - drugs, a gas, hypnosis, trauma.
I don't think split personalities are involved directly because that is usually pretty bad writing, but who knows. They love to use it as a literary device, right?

So far, I have no idea. I don't think there is an actual curse, or if there is, it's that the curse is a reputation or cover up for the murders, rather than the cause. But I do not know exactly why or how and have no clues yet. But the dam thing seems critical. Maybe I will learn more about it next chapter? What does "transfer out" mean? Switch bodies? Switch personalities? Lose your memory? Die? It can't be die, right?

Chapter 2 up until the day after buying the doll:

Spoiler

More slice of life. Hopefully, it pays off again. I am forcing myself to read every line because I know the author loves to hide hints in mundane things.
Hah, I knew they weren't the same person! First it wouldn't make sense if they were not, and second, I think their eye colors are just a tiny, tiny bit different shades of blue.
No clues as of yet that relate to chapter 1. Why is Keiichi alive again? Is this an alternative timeline?
Hold on, the dam was mentioned, as well as violent protests. Strange, it sounded subtly different from how it was described in Onikakushi. More violent, somehow.
Was the festival in June in Chapter 1? I remember them making a big deal out of how early it was, but June feels like summer to me.
Is Keiichi reliving the same year again? But if so, why is he remembering details from the first chapter? Does 'transferring out' mean restarting the year?

 

[Bohrain]

Good for the thread to have some use. Dunno if I ever get to reading Higurashi myself, I watched the DEEN anime ages ago and while I know it isn't super faithful to the original, I'm probably aware of the central twists.

 

[Jasede]

Chapter 2, end:

Spoiler

I have no idea what is anything. Technically the story was more straight-forward, but so much is hard to explain.
I was just thinking, we never saw the homes of the girls. Not having seen Rena's home, and blacking out just before we're shown where it is, is a massive red flag.
Random thoughts: is Ooishi telling us the truth at the end? Surely the explanation aren't going to be zombies. So either he is lying, or-
Or Takano, being a nurse, somehow managed to fuck with dental records and the woman that was burned isn't her, which of course would make her very suspicious.
Rika has a syringe? What was in it? Claw your neck out juice? That seems to be the implication, but... Did she find out the Mion/Shion thing and try to fix it on her own?
Speaking of Mion/Shion, it is 100% clear to me Shion had Mion locked up. I think that's obvious. She took credit for all the killings, not knowing Mion couldn't have done them all due to lack of information.
So what's with the zombie at the end? Well, who knows. We can't really trust the narrator either so maybe we shouldn't look too deeply into this, yet.

Questions for myself:
Who has a reason to kill the photographer? His 'girlfriend' nurse. She could have faked her own death in 2 fucking with the dental records from the hospital and using switching them, and in 1 she could just have disappeared. What's the motive? Maybe they argued about something, off-screen. Not a very strong motive. Maybe, being so into folk religions, she wants to reenact the myths?
But who has reason to kill or hurt Keiichi?! I can't think of anyone. Satoshi, for having been replaced or something? Ooishi, for unknown reasons? I just fail have no motive to go on.

What did Keiichi do in both chapters that might have earned him death?
In chapter 1, he talked during the Watanagashi. In chapter 2, he ran off during it. Both of these involve disrespecting the tradition. That would maybe hint at the nurse, or any of the girls. But which one?
Satoko also worries me. We rarely get much time with her. Could she have placed the syringe on Rika? But then, her body was found, too. Why would she do this? She does seem pretty cursed and hated.
Rena worries me, and not just because in one of the cover arts I have seen she's holding a knife. Why's she suddenly able to be so cool under pressure? Is this airhead thing just an act? Could the thing Keiichi did wrong in 1 and 2 be that he didn't love her or fall for her, despite her trying so hard? Is this a tsundere situation? She would have a motive then - out of jealousy she could organize everything. We have no idea what Rena did while the Shion/Mion endgame happened once the two go into the bunker. But if it's jealousy, what of the other murders? Is she tired of being part of the 'weakest' family or does she have old grudges, and acts as a punishing force, using the legend as a cover?

Clearly all the old murders/kidnappings are related to the main girls...

Hold on, if she IS some kind of 'guardian Hot Fuzz murderer...' - she would have killed the photographer for snapping a photo in the middle of the dance in Chapter 1, and breaking the taboo in 2. But then what of the other incidents? Did the Shion/Mion thing just happen to occur at the same time...? I think I still need a bit more information, but I think I have already seen everything I would need if I were super smart. But sadly it's not clicking.