The Dark Eye Blackguards 2

[Darth Roxor]

they might implement an optional hardcore mode without the casual shittery that dumbs down the character system?

I doubt it, they'd have to overhaul everything to make it like in blaggardz 1. This system seems rotten to the core, and would require much more effort to fix than B1's start-up pointbuy did.

Explain what's terrible about it.

Everything got mercilessly cut, which reduces your degree of choice when it comes to spending xp by approximately 75%. Without base values, all that you have left are: weapon skills, talents, spells and special abilities.

A reasonable person would think that this should mean you'd get more options in all those other areas. NOPE!

Weapon skills stayed almost the same, except that instead of going up to 20, they go from 0 to 100.

Talents also stayed mostly the same, except that you no longer have treat wounds, streetwise and survival. Streetwise and survival got merged into warcraft while treat wounds was axed. Warcraft, on the other hand, was split into enemy lores that give you info on enemy stats (and nothing else). So you are left with perception, traps, animal lore, human lore, arcane lore, willpower, body control and warcraft. So basically little difference. One good thing is they are on a 0-4 scale now.

Spell selection is identical except that some of their stats got readjusted. They are also on a 0-4 scale now.

Weapon special attack selection is identical. Special abilities selection is also near-identical save for a few +vitality/+endurance/+endurance regen picks.


So, in other words, basic values were removed altogether and there was nothing put into the system to compensate for this. In B1 you actually had a very large degree of choice when it came to advancing your character (at least in the first 3 chapters) - do I level a weapon talent? Do I improve str to get hammer blow later? Do I get ag for better doge later? Or do I get armour proficiency 3? This certainly wasn't complex, but it allowed for a good dose of planning your character and giving it some tangible 'oomph' once all the pieces you wanted fell into place.

Blaggardz 2, on the other hand, ditches all this completely. You never have to worry about any limitations or requirements, you can learn all the skills and spells basically from the get-go (unless that is unlocked only for preview version purposes, but I doubt it + it won't make all that much of a difference), and levelling fighters only boils down to "pump pump pump pump them weapon skills and get a talent here and there". Only mages retain some of that planning because of the same spell selection (+ I think many of them are also more costly than before).


There are also many other things that I find completely idiotic thus far, but I'll save them for later.

 

[abnaxus]

I was never too excited about this but this seals it.

No wonder Io-Daedalic never came back.

 

[Duellist_D]

Now this is utter shit.

 

[Abu Antar]

Fuck. They said small changes, not fuck up an enjoyable system.

 

[Infinitron]

So, in other words, basic values were removed altogether and there was nothing put into the system to compensate for this. In B1 you actually had a very large degree of choice when it came to advancing your character (at least in the first 3 chapters) - do I level a weapon talent? Do I improve str to get hammer blow later? Do I get ag for better doge later? Or do I get armour proficiency 3? This certainly wasn't complex, but it allowed for a good dose of planning your character and giving it some tangible 'oomph' once all the pieces you wanted fell into place.

OK, this is pretty much what I expected. They more-or-less said they were going to remove the primary attributes ("stats that control lots of things", or something like that).

BTW, you're kidding yourself if you think "this certainly wasn't complex". Blackguards' character system was extremely complex by the standards of most RPGs including plenty of old ones.

Anyway, what about the combat difficulty and encounter design?

 

[Darth Roxor]

They more-or-less said they were going to remove the primary attributes

Yes, but one would assume removing more than half the shit from the character advancement system would get compensanted somehow. Which it doesn't.

BTW, you're kidding yourself if you think "this certainly wasn't complex". Blackguards' character system was extremely complex by the standards of most RPGs including plenty of old ones.

Bullshit, lies, r00fles is all I can say on this matter.

Anyway, what about the combat difficulty and encounter design?

Will tune in once I see more.

 

[V_K]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.
How are derived stats like initiative, magic resistance etc calculated then? They couldn't have axed them as well, could they?

 

[Infinitron]

Yes, but one would assume removing more than half the shit from the character advancement system would get compensanted somehow. Which it doesn't.

Well, sometimes the goal is just to simplify things, full stop.

I can understand that it doesn't look good when a sequel of a game just axes an entire page off of your character sheet, though. It would have been better if they'd thrown in some sort of gimmick to make up for it, or just kept a heavily simplified primary attribute system.

P.S. Don't forget to check if they improved the itemization.

 

[Duellist_D]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.
How are derived stats like initiative, magic resistance etc calculated then? They couldn't have axed them as well, could they?

I think i read somewhere that the original stats are still available, just hidden from the Player.
If thats still the case, there might be a Chance for advanced character Progression.

 

[Darth Roxor]

How are derived stats like initiative, magic resistance etc calculated then? They couldn't have axed them as well, could they?

Mostly talents. You get some initiative from warcraft, some from perception. Also some initiative from weapon skills once you reach certain thresholds (80 and 100). And then some more from the same abilities as last time (battle intuition, battle reflexes). Stat-derived magic resistance got axed - it's only available via armour now and no longer makes magic fizzle, because spells autosucceed (which is MAXIMUM RETARDO), it's only percentage damage reduction now.

 

[Darth Roxor]

BTW did I mention not only magic auto-succeeds, but melee/ranged attacks also auto-hit if a dude has already parried/dodged in one turn?

I am having so much fun with dis!

 

[Darth Roxor]

lolwut, turns out I finished the preview already (it was meant to be 6-8 hours long, I did it in about 4)

verdict:

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Son of a bitch :/

 

[Desktop Commander]

This is rather disappointing. While their list of "improvements" sounded very worrisome from the get-go, I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, since Blackguards 1 had turned out to be really solid, despite all the early access whining.

Spells succeeding automatically would probably not be so bad in isolation (arcane wall was a cool tactical spell in the first game, though also very unreliable in the beginning, where it was most useful). But I guess they would have to put in some other limitation, so that any spellcaster is not suddenly able to cast every existing spell. I guess the no metallic armor for spellcasters rule will now be enforced more strictly (auto-failure?), since it would not make much sense for metallic armor to decrease the characters' (now nonexistant) spell success rate. This probably also means, that it won't be possible anymore to build an ironclad spellcaster via heavy investment in spell skills and casting-relevant stats, which would be rather unfortunate.

Also not a fan of auto hit if out of parries - did they remove dodging completely? Why?

 

[Infinitron]

BTW did I mention not only magic auto-succeeds, but melee/ranged attacks also auto-hit if a dude has already parried/dodged in one turn?

Ah, so that's what they meant in that email. "Fails and parades".

But I guess they would have to put in some other limitation, so that any spellcaster is not suddenly able to cast every existing spell. I guess the no metallic armor for spellcasters rule will now be enforced more strictly (auto-failure?), since it would not make much sense for metallic armor to decrease the characters' (now nonexistant) spell success rate.

They could translate spell failure % to an equivalent amount of damage decrease/duration decrease.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I guess the no metallic armor for spellcasters rule will now be enforced more strictly (auto-failure?)

Funny you should mention it

because there are now 2 special abilities that allow mages to cast while in heavy armour IIRC without them, the only things that get hampered are astral regen and max astral pool.

did they remove dodging completely?

Nope, dodging has been changed to work exactly like parrying - a character can only dodge once per turn.

EDIT: Great, I was about to check that casting while armoured thing, but it turns out the latest patch to the game has wiped my saves. Good that I already finished the preview or I'd be raging superhard now.

EDIT2: Yup, metal armour blocks astral regen and lowers your astral points pool. The first armour-casting talent unblocks astral regen, while the second removes the astral pool limit.

 

[SCO]

just played deponia 1, good game.

Come on Daedalic, don't let me down, don't let the decline consume you

 

[Duellist_D]

I can't even Count the instances of them shitting on the TDE rules on this page alone anymore.
Wtf, by now, they could just as easily have went with Derp&Derpity or some similiar incloooooosive rulesset.

 

[Infinitron]

The dodging once per turn thing is...I can understand the problem they were trying to address, but there's got to be a less crude way to do it. Why not progressively reduce dodge chance every time the character dodges in the same round, instead of taking it straight down to zero? It's really losing the spirit of the mechanic this way.

 

[Bubbles]

The dodging once per turn thing is...I can understand the problem they were trying to address, but there's got to be a less crude way to do it. Why not progressively reduce dodge chance every time the character dodges in the same round, instead of taking it straight down to zero? It's really losing the spirit of the mechanic this way.

It's almost as if they were trying to remove any complexity from the game.

 

[Grunker]

The dodging once per turn thing is...I can understand the problem they were trying to address, but there's got to be a less crude way to do it. Why not progressively reduce dodge chance every time the character dodges in the same round, instead of taking it straight down to zero? It's really losing the spirit of the mechanic this way.

Worse, you can see the abuse coming from a mile away. Can't hit a dude? AA him with your weakest attack and then just pile on.

This will probably get worse when you figure in the fact that many battles have you controlling a bunch of mercernaries.

Edit: no offense Roxor, but I hope it's just you driving the hyperbole-train

The armored mage thing sounds... OK, I guess?

I will buy this, daedalic has earned my trust with blaggardz 1. However if this is bad...

 

[Infinitron]

The dodging once per turn thing is...I can understand the problem they were trying to address, but there's got to be a less crude way to do it. Why not progressively reduce dodge chance every time the character dodges in the same round, instead of taking it straight down to zero? It's really losing the spirit of the mechanic this way.

It's almost as if they were trying to remove any complexity from the game.

Well, it might end up making it harder, since RPGs typically see your party outnumbered. Fat good your dodge build will do in those situations.

 

[Shadowfang]

Don't do it Grunker!
Or at least just don't remove it from an inventory first.

 

[Turjan]

I can't even Count the instances of them shitting on the TDE rules on this page alone anymore.

Yup, that doesn't sound like TDE anymore. Perhaps this is a test run for 5th edition?

The cheapest German boxed version will be €19.99, so at least it's not too expensive.

 

[Bubbles]

Yup, that doesn't sound like TDE anymore. Perhaps this is a test run for 5th edition?

The biggest changes of the TDE 5 beta were that the stamina system was completely removed, priest miracles were revamped, and racial differences were greatly reduced. Considering that BG2 is supposed to add a stamina systen, I doubt that it could serve as much of a test run.