Incline Battle Brothers + Beasts & Exploration, Warriors of the North and Blazing Deserts DLC Thread

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

I will post this and I'm ready for the backlash, I deserve it:

*I really, really , REALLY love JA2

How bad was it?
I think i dropped idea of buying it after I saw some Youtube video about it, but I have forgotten what bugged me about JA:F (and to be honest I've forgotten that that project even existed.)

 

[Janise]

there is one born every day

 

[Jimmious]

How bad was it?
I think i dropped idea of buying it after I saw some Youtube video about it, but I have forgotten what bugged me about JA:F (and to be honest I've forgotten that that project even existed.)

It was filled with bugs, incomplete content and just about everything in the game was "simplified" so that they'd manage to release somehow. You know for almost every feature they said "we have to do it like this because we don't have the resources".
Also crappy voice acting, failed pledge rewards and ofcourse the company went POOF! like 1 week after release or something? I dunno, I was so frustrated I can't even remember everything now...

If the game was called something else it would be a mediocre to bad tb strategy game maybe worth a couple of bucks, but... It wasn't

 

[Sarissofoi]

I think that all the people that are butthurt, are the ones that followed Battle Brothers from the beginning, I am one of them.
If you read all of their dev blog post's and what Paul wrote in his Artcorner it is just clear that they had a bigger plan for this game and people like me took them serious. Battle Brother is not bad for what it is, but compared to what seemed what they planed its just mediocre. I still think they could have made an awesome game, but they had not the will/money/compassion to make it happen.
When Paul said that the legendaries that made it into the game are an plus I just lost it. I mean wtf?! They wanted to make a great game, they had plans for legendary weapons with unique skills and they just have not delivered.
All the end-game-crisis are lacking, and everyone in early access has said so, its the last "feature" they implement and it is not as polished as the rest. They just wanted to be done with it, its at least the impression I got.
As Sarissofoi wrote, they had more of an living world in earlier versions, instead of working on it, they dumped it down, to what it is now.
Really Battle Brothers is to me just another sad story, there seems to be no chance that we get in this dark times a worthy game, worthy as old classics are from 20 years ago. We better do not talk about replayability.
For me one thing is sure, I will not support Overhype with buying an early-access title again, because to me they showed that they do not care/are not passionate about their own fucking games. Its unfortunate, as with less money, they will have it harder, but well guess what its choices and consequences.
That they have not replied a single time on the codex since they released, well says in itself enough to me.

Legendaries you mention suppose to have their own set of quests and well we get two sets of armors with events but that is all. There where suppose to be weapons also.
If you follow EA closely you will see that it all change around global map update when they abandon old 'living world' system and instead of making game deeper they start making it look better when dumbing down whole mechanics.
End game crisis supposedly be arising organically from over successful enemy faction - so high presence orcs on the map that are successful with their raids could trigger rise of warlord and full scale invasion. Instead we get increased enemy spawn rate and contracts that only activate when player take them.
Notice that you will never run at orc siege by accident, it always trigger by contract. That is why settlements can fall so easily when player is not around - there is no siege they just run of out of troops(not sure) and attached locations.
You have mercenary companies other than player that do nothing - they just wander supposedly employed by some settlement or faction and fight hostile patrols. That is all. They will not steal your contracts or will not hunt enemy camps or monsters terrorizing local population - nope that only player can do.
Enemy raids were once two staged - first scouting party appear that if destroyed prevent raid from launching and if not it could trigger raid if they find local defenses weak enough.
yes I am still butthurt about this game because it had potential and even now it have it - if you could try to play with mechanics.
And there is another layer of questionable design decisions like one contract at time, blind and annoying recruitment, lack of scouting, lack of permanent world(enemy parties or terrain roll at the moment of battle, hell your caravan buddies morf from battle to battle), rather limited enemy faction composition or level scaling(with few jumps that made whole progression silly).
I could continue but its mostly pointless.
Game is not bad but it was supposedly be bigger and better and deeper. Instead we get some addictive but mobile tier game with superb combat and grind facebook game global mechanics. I mean whole blind recruitment is a gold sink that encourage grind if not save scumming.

Also the whole issue about lack of modding or/and DLC.
It was expected and heavily hinted/baited that it will happen. If not one then another. People expect at last some DLC and then later maybe some modding tools even simple ones for fan translation or balancing. When I personally do not expect modding tools I expect at last some DLC/expansion.
But we got nothing. And files are encrypted so you can not even touch it.
I suspect that adding simple stuff is not to hard as they add some banners or item colorization on the flay - hell they add some fan made hats.
Damn.
Not mention that when Steam forum exploded with anger at first I was amusing because I expected less of more that something like that will happen - and there some white knights appear with like 3 hours game play time. Seriously. I get when somebody can dislike game that he play 15 minutes. I get why somebody could defend game(and devs by proxy) that he enjoy and find good. But guys who ride to the rescue for the game that he barely scratch and do not play in weeks or months?
And all that sweet talk. Oh we love to do it and we tried but... My bullshit detector was ringing whole time. Its like a fat women talk that say Oh I would love to lose weight when she drink soda and eat fast food in amounts that could feed whole Somalian village.
Damn. I am still angry.

Spoiler

Can I blame Germanistan for that or I can not? That is the question.

 

[PanteraNera]

Sarissofoi
Thank you very much, you pretty much summed up everything I was butthurt about as well.
I can understand that if you DO NOT KNOW about all of this, that you might think Battle Brothers is a good game (which I still think it is). But it had the potential to be a fucking awesome game.
What they had planned would have been a game that you would play in ages, just like UFO: Enemy Unknown, a timeless classic.

To be realistic, they had been probably just been to over-ambitious, or they are just fat women's

What puzzles me is, its their first game, they talked big and than they didn't deliver, how can they not think that people might be not willing to support them with early-access or donations with their next game?

What puzzled me as well is that they even ignored long-time hardcore fan's like RusBear, when he voiced that he doesn't like the direction the game is going (all the dumping down Sarissofoi talked about).

 

[Jimmious]

Let me put you a soundtrack guys

 

[Kuattro]

Yesterday I was cruising the highway at full speed in my Maserati, when suddenly I thought, "hang on a minute, why is this just a great car, when it could be a fucking SPACE SHUTTLE, WITH GUNS".

So I went back to the car dealer and I cussed at him until the police took me away.

 

[Bocian]

This looks like a nice game, anyone knows if it work under Win XP?

Confirmed, it does work on XP.

 

[PanteraNera]

Kuattro
That is just plane wrong, if the Maserati was made by Over-Hype you wouldn't be able to drive at full speed, because there was not enough time/money/whatever for that feature, besides other canceled features. The police would come in and call you an idiot, cause you paid them before they even finished the car.

Also the car-dealer would be a publisher, Over-Hype hasn't had an evil publisher that forced them to release before it was finished.

 

[Kuattro]

I can understand that if you DO NOT KNOW about all of this, that you might think Battle Brothers is a good game (which I still think it is). But it had the potential to be a fucking awesome game.
What they had planned would have been a game that you would play in ages, just like UFO: Enemy Unknown, a timeless classic.

Make up your mind.

Either the game is good as it is, and the only thing unfulfilled is the promise, the potential; or it isn't.

Either the Maserati is going at full speed, and of course it could go even faster if we stick a jet engine in there; or it's going at half speed because it's incomplete.

Incomplete != Unfulfilled (and unknown, as you said) potential.

No, your problem, and quite a lot of people's apparently, is that you were expecting three German blokes who never had made a game before to suddenly pop up and create the game to end all games, one that would make all other developers retire. And hey, they did too probably, which is why they talked, sorry, I mean baited, about cultures, battle sisters, different environments, combat in buildings, modding, DLCs, and everything else.

Until one day they woke up and realized that their dreams of becoming legendary developers that put everyone else to shame with their first game ever would have to wait. So they compromised, and did what they could with the resources, including abilities, that they had. And after seeing the sales of the game, they discarded any further development.

That's basically all there is to it.

I too remember the times when bandits and orcs raided caravans in order to create their settlements. I remember a dark and scary world, where every single village was a poor dump of a place because caravans were continuously destroyed, there was no trade or economy to speak of, and the contracts were far and between because nobody had money to hire mercenaries.

And hey, maybe that would have made for a great, albeit short, game. Maybe they should have balanced that and tried to make it better. And maybe they would have succeeded. Or maybe they would have failed and right now Battle Brothers would be another entry in the long list of indie games that never got made.

Instead, we got a "good game" (your words, not mine), and a good developer that is already working on it's second game.

I would say that's great, but probably only because I'm a fanboy. The real serious intelligent people bitch and get aggressive at Overhype at the Steam forums (not saying is your case, I don't know if you do), and then wonder why the developers choose to limit their interaction with them.

 

[PanteraNera]

Make up your mind.

Either the game is good as it is, and the only thing unfulfilled is the promise, the potential; or it isn't.

Either the Maserati is going at full speed, and of course it could go even faster if we stick a jet engine in there; or it's going at half speed because it's incomplete.

Let me clarify and excuse me that I haven't used enough words to make myself clear before, I do think that the parts of the game they delivered are good, but that it is incomplete. Most of the things, feature's one might say, are in a very polished state, what I can think of right now what is not as polished as the rest of the game is the crisis and what my problem is, is that many feature's haven't made it into the game.

Bringing it back to the Maserati, for me it's going at half speed because it's incomplete.

Maybe what's hard to understand is this: either someone loves or hates something, usually it works like that in our world. I try to stay in between.
As a developer/businessmen they probably did the right thing, but as a gamer they left me butthurt

No, your problem, and quite a lot of people's apparently, is that you were expecting three German blokes who never had made a game before to suddenly pop up and create the game to end all games, one that would make all other developers retire. And hey, they did too probably, which is why they talked, sorry, I mean baited, about cultures, battle sisters, different environments, combat in buildings, modding, DLCs, and everything else.

Honestly the second coming can only come from an indie, we all know the prophecy .
Well fuck me, but just TWO guys created UFO: Enemy Unknown 23 years ago, they had one more so they should have been doing something even GREATER. Nah just being silly.
But yeah I am naive, it's true I should have learned by now not to trust what people say.

Until one day they woke up and realized that their dreams of becoming legendary developers that put everyone else to shame with their first game ever would have to wait. So they compromised, and did what they could with the resources, including abilities, that they had. And after seeing the sales of the game, they discarded any further development.

Question is, would the game have sold differently if they haven't compromised? No one knows, that's for sure. I belief (not know!) that if they had pulled through that they would have sold more copies. So because of my belief I have no sympathy for them being disappointed with their sales, as they have brought it to them-self, it's to me, self-inflicted.

Instead, we got a "good game" (your words, not mine), and a good developer that is already working on it's second game.

I elaborated what I meant with "good game" earlier in this reply, what they made is good, really polished, but it is incomplete.
Think of it as an painting, there is a big white canvas, a quarter of the canvas is painted beautifully, marvelous, the most detailed art you ever seen, but there is still three quarter empty, is it a good painting? Some might say yes, others might say no, so we can agree that we two in this case, disagree with each other.
And I would not say that they are a good developer, because to me they are not trustworthy anymore like you said, they talked/baited.

The real serious intelligent people bitch and get aggressive at Overhype at the Steam forums (not saying is your case, I don't know if you do), and then wonder why the developers choose to limit their interaction with them.

Never wrote a single line in any steam forums, I only talked about Battle Brothers here, and shortly after the release I had some mails with Jan that were at that time very supportive.

 

[Kuattro]

what my problem is, is that many feature's haven't made it into the game.

Bringing it back to the Maserati, for me it's going at half speed because it's incomplete.

Features like underwater battles, flying or guns.

The car is completely fine, you just wished it was something else than a car.

I'm not trying to say you expected those ridiculous things in the game, of course, what I mean is that features not making it into the game could mean anything, and the truth is, it's features you wish had made it into the game, as opposed to features that should have made it into the game for it to be complete. The game is not lacking a save system, or a functioning UI.

Again, incomplete, and unrealized potential, are not the same thing. And I feel like we are going in circles so I think I'll leave it there.

Except...

Well fuck me, but just TWO guys created UFO: Enemy Unknown 23 years ago, they had one more so they should have been doing something even GREATER. Nah just being silly.

I hope you'll realize the difference between someone making their first game, and someone like Jullian Gollop, who had more than half a dozen games under his belt, had 10 years of experience, and had spent them refining that formula to create what he created.

Let's give Overhype 10 years too, and then if they haven't come up with their masterpiece for the ages, I'll admit they weren't worth it.

Question is, would the game have sold differently if they haven't compromised?

Question is, would they have released a complete (arguably complete?) game, if they hadn't compromised? Would they have run out of money, and had to disappear into oblivion releasing a "1.0 complete version we swear guys this is the real deal", as many indie developers have done? I've said so before in this very thread but, you are asking them to risk their money, and their future as developers. And that is a mighty thing to ask.

 

[Sarissofoi]

You miss the point where plenty of veterans see some current designs as mere placeholder that will be replaced/upgraded at some point.
For example when they switch to new global mechanics in 0.6 and people start complaining they respond 'would like/love' to change it and that their change is for having more contracts/encounters on global map(for testing purpose) and at that time that was pretty reasonable as previous system completely lack balance.

I too remember the times when bandits and orcs raided caravans in order to create their settlements. I remember a dark and scary world, where every single village was a poor dump of a place because caravans were continuously destroyed, there was no trade or economy to speak of, and the contracts were far and between because nobody had money to hire mercenaries.

That was true but it was more connected with few things.
-all enemy factions gravitate to few human settlements(max 1 city, 1 castle, 2 watchtowers and 5 villages) and they could muster 50 camps or more
-human forces were weak like extremely weak(peasant militia armed with sticks and knives)
-their resources were depleted constantly because of constant caravan spam(instead of stopping them when roads are too dangerous)
-enemy factions were united(as all orcs were as one) and when they sometimes fight other factions it was nothing compared to constant assault on kingdom settlements
Solution would be rather simple:
-divide enemy factions into hostile to each other sub factions(like different orcish clans that raid each other), which naturally would lower pressure on kingdom settlements
-make possible(by mission system already in game) for enemies and allies to rally force that would assault and destroy/capture/subdue enemy camps, making for kingdom force to defend themselves and for some dynamics in wild lands(like orcs assaulting goblin cities or some strong orc clan subduing other orcs) that would lead to organicly arising threats(like player destroying bandit hideout on the border clear area for the expansion of goblins that bandits keep away)
-strengthen kingdom forces by increasing quality of militia and military units, adding other forces that could be rallied/employed to support them(mercenaries/adventurers etc)
-improve settlements decision making(high threat=stop caravans, hire military, ask for help from castle etc)
It looks for me that they have all tools to make it but instead they decide to go for easier solutions.

Question is, would the game have sold differently if they haven't compromised? No one knows, that's for sure. I belief (not know!) that if they had pulled through that they would have sold more copies. So because of my belief I have no sympathy for them being disappointed with their sales, as they have brought it to them-self, it's to me, self-inflicted.

Dunno. This game have zero advertisement and most copies were sold in EA. Mostly because there is lack of quality tactical games and people were starved. Thing is if they would made it they would have community support and people would buy their next game on spot - right now plenty of people get resentful or suspicious against devs.

. The real serious intelligent people bitch and get aggressive at Overhype at the Steam forums (not saying is your case, I don't know if you do), and then wonder why the developers choose to limit their interaction with them.

They start limiting their interaction with community far before that. "Check FAQ". Then there was silence and suddenly end of story. They are not fools, they know what they were doing and expect backlash - maybe not that great and probably expect that it will calm and get forgotten quick.

BB is strange beast - compared to most indie shit its stable, well working, good looking and pretty polished and almost bug free. Combat is great. But it lacks some mechanics and some design choices are very questionable. Its not a bad game but seriously its not great. And even when I am starved for some of tactical games I can not even play it.
Look how fast forums died.

 

[PanteraNera]

Features like underwater battles, flying or guns.

or didn't understand?

I have listed what the feature's were, Sarissofoi did it even more in detail.

The car is completely fine, you just wished it was something else than a car.

Okay maybe I misunderstand you, I assumed that you were referring with your car-metaphor to me and Sarissofoi, maybe I was wrong?
If you referred to me, you assumed wrong. Instead of assuming, how about you make either a statement yourself or ask questions, all you did so far is react to an action, with wrong assumptions.

So to sum it up, you think Battle Brothers is a good complete game, and Over-Hype are good developers.
Also I assume that you think its good that they talked/baited big so idiots like myself, Sarissofoi and others support them with early-access/money so people like you could get the game that is now. You knew from the begining not to take them serious with all their fancy dev-blog-posts, and in the end it makes them a good developer as they managed to get the money from all the idiots who believed in what they said, so they could make the game as is.

I wouldn't call that a good developer. Fool me once blame on you, fool me twice blame on me.

I, in opposite to you do not think that the car is complete(ly fine) and I only wished that they make the fucking car they fucking talked about. Is it that hard to understand?

I'm not trying to say you expected those ridiculous things in the game, of course, what I mean is that features not making it into the game could mean anything, and the truth is, it's features you wish had made it into the game, as opposed to features that should have made it into the game for it to be complete. The game is not lacking a save system, or a functioning UI.

Not anything! Again, I listed the features, Sarissofoi did so as well. I was even thinking about quoting all the stuff from Paul's Artcorner and their dev-blog, but it would make no diffrence to you, you would come up with something even sillier than underwater battles, to what? To prove that you are right and everyone that says something different to your point of view is wrong?

Well fuck me, but just TWO guys created UFO: Enemy Unknown 23 years ago, they had one more so they should have been doing something even GREATER. Nah just being silly.

I hope you'll realize the difference between someone making their first game, and someone like Jullian Gollop, who had more than half a dozen games under his belt, had 10 years of experience, and had spent them refining that formula to create what he created.

It's funny that you quoted both sentences, but answering or understanding just the first. After reading your exaggerations, I couldn't resist the urge to do so as well .

Let's give Overhype 10 years too, and then if they haven't come up with their masterpiece for the ages, I'll admit they weren't worth it.

Haha, ha ha, hahaha. You still belief (in) them . I thought I was naive :D.

I've said so before in this very thread but, you are asking them to risk their money, and their future as developers. And that is a mighty thing to ask.

Only time will tell, but I say with the release of Battle Brothers as is, they have risked their (future) money and their future as developers more!
Just re-read what people answered on their last dev-blog posts. That's lost customers. Read the steam forums, lost customers as well. Read their own forum, lost customers again.
You think they have enough money to make their next game without early-access? I do not think so. You think these people will invest in an early-access title again, or in an supporter-edition?

Also, isn't a game developer that does NOT take a risk, basically a triple-A developer ?
Now it makes all sense! You enlightened me! All that time I was thinking Over-Hype was an indie studio, they are not!

 

[Quillon]

This week Rob, Rowan, Obsidian's Josh Sawyer, and Troy "I told you, these leeches are medicinal" Goodfellow discuss Overhype Studios' Battle Brothers.

https://www.idlethumbs.net/3ma/episodes/battle-brothers

 

[Infinitron]

This week Rob, Rowan, Obsidian's Josh Sawyer, and Troy "I told you, these leeches are medicinal" Goodfellow discuss Overhype Studios' Battle Brothers. It's been a while since the panel has been smitten with a game, but Battle Brothers seems to win everyone over with its smart tactical turn based combat. Taking a break from elaborate spells, this low-fantasy setting has your archers are melee combatants slugging it out in the mud and snow against brigands orcs.

 

[Anthedon]

This week Rob, Rowan, Obsidian's Josh Sawyer, and Troy "I told you, these leeches are medicinal" Goodfellow discuss Overhype Studios' Battle Brothers. It's been a while since the panel has been smitten with a game, but Battle Brothers seems to win everyone over with its smart tactical turn based combat. Taking a break from elaborate spells, this low-fantasy setting has your archers are melee combatants slugging it out in the mud and snow against brigands orcs.

Quite reasonable. Until they start to complain about the depiction of women and lack of diversity in Battle Brothers.

 

[Indranys]

These discussions in a nutshell:

 

[sser]

This week Rob, Rowan, Obsidian's Josh Sawyer, and Troy "I told you, these leeches are medicinal" Goodfellow discuss Overhype Studios' Battle Brothers. It's been a while since the panel has been smitten with a game, but Battle Brothers seems to win everyone over with its smart tactical turn based combat. Taking a break from elaborate spells, this low-fantasy setting has your archers are melee combatants slugging it out in the mud and snow against brigands orcs.

Quite reasonable. Until they start to complain about the depiction of women and lack of diversity in Battle Brothers.

Numerous events where you slaughter men in horrifying ways and often for nothing: no problem.

Poke some fun at a woman: sexism.

2017.

 

[Alienman]

At what minute do they start to discuss that?

 

[sser]

At what minute do they start to discuss that?

55-57mins in, and here and there afterwards. It's not really a discussion as no one else jumps on it. The core of it was about personalizing the brothers.

Really I think it's more about the guy just not being a fan of dark fantasy which is fair in its own right. That said, I do eyeroll a bit whenever this brutal world applies its rules to everyone it suddenly becomes "bigoted" and "off putting."

Personally, it's the all encompassing harshness of Battle Brothers' world that makes the "positive" moments all the better. Right? Or is that just me in thinking that way? Like when you tell your mercenary that fighting is completely fucking terrifying and nobody is truly fearless, the game's setting really does make it seem like combat is ugly, so cheering the guy up feels pretty genuine. Or when you meet that madam with the lot of prostitutes, you kinda get the sense that she's a lot like you, just doing what it takes to survive. Or when you meet the enslaved wildman and your monk argues against the merits of enslaving someone who doesn't even understand the first principle of the relationship. Like none of that shit has nearly as much impact if the whole world is loosey goosey and everyone's just doing their thing like it's Cosmopolitan Post-Modern Dark Ages.

 

[Lios]

Ah, I don't know about you young men, but I'm still hooked to this game like a monkey in my back.
It's not the game to end all games like I fantasized a year ago, and yes I get horny everytime I imagine the "ifs",
but I still run a new map every now and then, consistently, all these months since the final release.

Is it the clockwork, awesome combat? Is it the soundtrack that can even put the flames off the being of cherubs? Is it the art that demands to be respected because, quite honestly, doesn't have anything similar to be compared to in the modern gaming world? Is it the writing, that sculptures a Whole and thus knows how to build stories in its center and when to shut up and let the atmosphere do the blah blah? Is Battle Brothers Biggest feat and sin, in this day and age, to have the balls to deny us our wet dreams and still present a perfectly running, bug free, Complete gaming experience that can be enjoyed again and again and again etc etc?

I would love to see more of Battle Brothers till I'm 60 years old, but still, humans are not 100% automatons, no matter how we weep everytime we realize it everyday, so.

*though, the fact that I buy a POACHER or HUNTER and then I see that he has like, 2 stars in vitality, 2 in initiative and 1 in melee combat, is retarded.

 

[Kuattro]

*though, the fact that I buy a POACHER or HUNTER and then I see that he has like, 2 stars in vitality, 2 in initiative and 1 in melee combat, is retarded.

I find it the most charming part of the game. He was a poacher, like his father, his father's father, and his father's father's father.

But in reality he has very good qualities to become a shieldbearer macer. He only needed someone who had an eye for this thing and believed that he could be something else than a mere poacher to give him a little push in that direction, someone like you.

Maybe he'd been dreaming about it every night, and every morning, before getting his bow and going out, he practised a bit with a sword when no one else was looking.

Of course the fact that what you needed was a ranged brother and not another melee brother is a bummer, but being a mercenary, you do what you can with what you get, don't you?

By the way, "clockwork combat" is probably the best description I've seen for what Battle Brothers offers

 

[Darth Roxor]

larpers itt

 

[Kuattro]

I'm so good at it I live in an imaginary world where Battle Brothers is a great game while you peasants are forced to live in the real world, where Battle Brothers sucked.

No but seriously, it's an open world game with the skeleton of a story and a very good system. I think you are very much expected to LARP.

And if you really dislike it, maybe I'm starting to understand why you felt it fell so short as a game.

Following you men individually, identifying them by name and feats (they even introduced a counter of days and kills), etc. seems like it's a big part of Battle Brothers.

Obviously other games do that too, but maybe in them it wasn't as essential as in Battle Brothers to enjoying it.

Or maybe Battle Brothers is a bit lacking and you have to compensate somehow, but I didn't say that of course.