Baldur's Gate #BaldurGate: Siege of Dragonspear

[Lacrymas]

Well the great wonders and creations of the world been things breaking the mainstream. Not bandwagoning it. I bet they are the same people who think Blizzard is innovative when all they do is remake the wheel with a new plating. Might be fun games but they are not the revolutionary games people think they are, atleast not anymore.

You say that like it's an easy thing to do. It's incredibly daunting, and sometimes even incomprehensible, to create something great and new. It also doesn't make money, which is the ultimate goal of most people, that's why they jump on bandwagons - it's easy AND profitable. Not to mention that going against mainstream tastes has always resulted in controversy, even to the point of physical fighting and police getting involved. I doubt that can happen now because people care less, but still.

 

[Shin]

Because they aren't thinking about what they are doing, duh. That's the problem of jumping on the bandwagon. One of the first items you can get in BG1 is the cursed belt that changes your gender. LGBT "issues" are "hip" nowadays and that's what most developers do - shoving everything (temporarily) popular in their games and sucking mainstream cock. That has been true for everything in the history of humanity though.

About the black lines - they are awful, I think we have enough games riding the cartoony wagon and that aesthetic became banal like 10 years ago.

Well the great wonders and creations of the world been things breaking the mainstream. Not bandwagoning it. I bet they are the same people who think Blizzard is innovative when all they do is remake the wheel with a new plating. Might be fun games but they are not the revolutionary games people think they are, atleast not anymore.

Someone need to kill the cartoony wagon as much as someone need to kill the modern military shooters with their colours of grey, brown and puke.

EDIT: Being transgender in a world of demons and angels, gods and magic left and right is really awkward. Like, buy that shitty belt off the adventurers. If you feel so entitled to tell everyone, well...then you might aswell put effort into magicall altering your gender. Beside that, maybe your VERY MUCH LIVING GOD, should be the priority, Tempus and all that and not you being a woman in a male body as one of your only characteristics.

Heh, reading your post made me google for "do D&D deities hate faggots" and for some reason I came unto this iTunes page where they sell a song called "Dungeons & Dragons Is Gay", not sure what's up with that. Also, judging from some D&D wiki page... they actually were pretty incloosive in the D&D 5th edition manual itself:

Sex
You can play a male or female character without gaining any special benefits or hindrances.
Think about how your character does or does not conform to the broader culture’s expectations of sex, gender, and sexual behavior.
For example, a male drow cleric defies the traditional gender divisions of drow society, which could be a reason for your character to leave that society and come to the surface.
You don’t need to be confined to binary notions of sex and gender.
The elf god Corellon Larethian is often seen as androgynous or hermaphroditic, for example, and some elves in the multiverse are made in Corellon’s image.
You could also play a female character who presents herself as a man, a man who feels trapped in a female body, or a bearded female dwarf who hates being mistaken for a male.
Likewise, your character’s sexual orientation is for you to decide.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Because that transgender would need to either have a mage friend with access to Polymorph spell or be able to pay at minimum 10x7x4= 280 gp to some willing mage which is a small forture in that world. Also it is not permanent as any kind of dispel magic, break enchantment or some magical energies fuckup would revert it.
Wish spell could make it non limited, maybe even Limited Wish but good luck finding a mage of that level willing to bother with such shit or that amount of money.

Considering the world state where the games are set, finding that small fortune or finding a mage and or God walking about that's willing to do it, is probably ad easy as going outside your house.

 

[Ezrite]

Because that transgender would need to either have a mage friend with access to Polymorph spell or be able to pay at minimum 10x7x4= 280 gp to some willing mage which is a small forture in that world. Also it is not permanent as any kind of dispel magic, break enchantment or some magical energies fuckup would revert it.
Wish spell could make it non limited, maybe even Limited Wish but good luck finding a mage of that level willing to bother with such shit or that amount of money.

Perhaps so. But why should it be in the game? It gives nothing to the setting, it adds zero. There is a gay character (atleast 1) in Witcher 3 who you need to drag out of him that he is homosexual and it been bad times for him cause of this. THIS is much more interesting to hear about and one can genuinely feel sorry for him than some random Tempus priest who speaks about her gender as if it is totally normal to be that. In a world where possession and similar is rampart and education systems do not really exist for the peasants. A very black and white world thanks to alignment systems. And Im pretty sure a Priest of Tempus can arrange something if needed.

 

[Hegel]

Edwina and the belt of gender change didn't add anything either, it's just a bit of added flavor.

 

[Ezrite]

Heh, reading your post made me google for "do D&D deities hate faggots" and for some reason I came unto this iTunes page where they sell a song called "Dungeons & Dragons Is Gay", not sure what's up with that. Also, judging from some D&D wiki page... they actually were pretty incloosive in the D&D 5th edition manual itself:

It is all shoehorned into the world, sure go ahead and make this but stop changing already existing settings to fit this fringe, small group.

I mean, In my own spare time DMing and creating a shitty homebrew I made a modernize tribal people living in keeps, where you can lose your "male" gender by being a coward or become "Male" by being heroic and doing superior deeds in this society. But if some person got offended by this I would not change it. Not my problem what they don't like in my creation is it?

Edwina and the belt of gender change didn't add anything either, it's just a bit of added flavor.

Well as said, that was back in the days. This new one is just shoe horned in by Amber Scott to be more "modern" and "PC".

 

[Roguey]

About the black lines - they are awful, I think we have enough games riding the cartoony wagon and that aesthetic became banal like 10 years ago.

Someone need to kill the cartoony wagon as much as someone need to kill the modern military shooters with their colours of grey, brown and puke.

You two know very little about art.

Cartoony games always age better than anything that fails at photorealism.

 

[Ezrite]

You two know very little about art.

Cartoony games always age better than anything that fails at photorealism.

Edwina and the belt of gender change didn't add anything either, it's just a bit of added flavor.

I beg to differ. You think WoW and such age well? Also I do not speak of phot realistic. As you noticed I also want those trendy shooters to die. But I think Baldurs Gate and Fallout 2 are genuinely beautiful games in their own way. Advanced enignes do not make games beautiful. Hell Suikoden and such is beautiful to. They are 2D drawn games but I would not call it cartoony. But the whole over the top design and such in some games and how cartoony it ends up being do not make it better.

Or you find these cartoony games to be really mood and interesting RPGs?

 

[Seaking4]

Because they aren't thinking about what they are doing, duh. That's the problem of jumping on the bandwagon. One of the first items you can get in BG1 is the cursed belt that changes your gender. LGBT "issues" are "hip" nowadays and that's what most developers do - shoving everything (temporarily) popular in their games and sucking mainstream cock. That has been true for everything in the history of humanity though.

About the black lines - they are awful, I think we have enough games riding the cartoony wagon and that aesthetic became banal like 10 years ago.

Well the great wonders and creations of the world been things breaking the mainstream. Not bandwagoning it. I bet they are the same people who think Blizzard is innovative when all they do is remake the wheel with a new plating. Might be fun games but they are not the revolutionary games people think they are, atleast not anymore.

Someone need to kill the cartoony wagon as much as someone need to kill the modern military shooters with their colours of grey, brown and puke.

EDIT: Being transgender in a world of demons and angels, gods and magic left and right is really awkward. Like, buy that shitty belt off the adventurers. If you feel so entitled to tell everyone, well...then you might aswell put effort into magicall altering your gender. Beside that, maybe your VERY MUCH LIVING GOD, should be the priority, Tempus and all that and not you being a woman in a male body as one of your only characteristics.

Heh, reading your post made me google for "do D&D deities hate faggots" and for some reason I came unto this iTunes page where they sell a song called "Dungeons & Dragons Is Gay", not sure what's up with that. Also, judging from some D&D wiki page... they actually were pretty incloosive in the D&D 5th edition manual itself:

Sex
You can play a male or female character without gaining any special benefits or hindrances.
Think about how your character does or does not conform to the broader culture’s expectations of sex, gender, and sexual behavior.
For example, a male drow cleric defies the traditional gender divisions of drow society, which could be a reason for your character to leave that society and come to the surface.
You don’t need to be confined to binary notions of sex and gender.
The elf god Corellon Larethian is often seen as androgynous or hermaphroditic, for example, and some elves in the multiverse are made in Corellon’s image.
You could also play a female character who presents herself as a man, a man who feels trapped in a female body, or a bearded female dwarf who hates being mistaken for a male.
Likewise, your character’s sexual orientation is for you to decide.

I youtube'd the song and the autoplay took me to a video of four guys sitting around a table talking about classes in 5th ED D&D. I imagine they are exactly what El Privates were thinking of.

I'm surprised so many people care about one throwaway character in an expansion. Definitely feels like this is being blown out of proportion. I've learned from reading this thread that this game has a feature that you either hate or love that can be turned off and that it has a trans character. I have all the information that I'll ever need.

 

[Lacrymas]

Edwina and the belt of gender change didn't add anything either, it's just a bit of added flavor.

It depends on whether that added flavor is in bad taste and how it gels with the setting. Shoving something popular just because it's popular is always in bad taste,*cough* Bioware *cough*. Not to mention that it's as tame and toothless as possible and that's what gives it away as just shoved in there. If they wanted it to count they should've ramped it up to 11 with this NPC, but that goes outside the "safe zone", doesn't it.

Cartoony games always age better than anything that fails at photorealism.

Nobody is talking about photorealism. It's about an aesthetic that became banal 10 years ago and is now popular again just because they've heard somewhere that it ages better. It doesn't have anything to do with "art", contemporary visual art is completely different than any game I've ever seen, so we can't even begin talking about (visual) art. It's an aesthetic choice that has overstayed its welcome.

 

[ArchAngel]

Because that transgender would need to either have a mage friend with access to Polymorph spell or be able to pay at minimum 10x7x4= 280 gp to some willing mage which is a small forture in that world. Also it is not permanent as any kind of dispel magic, break enchantment or some magical energies fuckup would revert it.
Wish spell could make it non limited, maybe even Limited Wish but good luck finding a mage of that level willing to bother with such shit or that amount of money.

Perhaps so. But why should it be in the game? It gives nothing to the setting, it adds zero. There is a gay character (atleast 1) in Witcher 3 who you need to drag out of him that he is homosexual and it been bad times for him cause of this. THIS is much more interesting to hear about and one can genuinely feel sorry for him than some random Tempus priest who speaks about her gender as if it is totally normal to be that. In a world where possession and similar is rampart and education systems do not really exist for the peasants. A very black and white world thanks to alignment systems. And Im pretty sure a Priest of Tempus can arrange something if needed.

Because transgender and gay characters existed in the past even in our world?
I see no reason why characters cannot run into one. This one is a Priest of fair standing so he/she can talk about it without fear of reprisal. And players ask him/her about it, it is not like he goes "heya I am Mizhana, a transgender."
And why he/she didn't try to change sex is probably between he/she and her God.

Normal transgender characters that are born into poor family and have no magical powers or influence in the surroundings cannot do shit about it (kind of like real world where the operations is super expensive).

Also I seen much worse SJW characters in Hollywood TV shows where they not only hamfist it but then talk about their unfair place in society and how they are fighting to change (and this is a show that is not about these themes but about people with gifts).

 

[Roguey]

I beg to differ. You think WoW and such age well?

Yes. Blizzard's cartoony aesthetic is a bit garish though.

But I think Baldurs Gate and Fallout 2 are genuinely beautiful games in their own way. Advanced enignes do not make games beautiful. Hell Suikoden and such is beautiful to. They are 2D drawn games but I would not call it cartoony. But the whole over the top design and such in some games and how cartoony it ends up being do not make it better.

Or you find these cartoony games to be really mood and interesting RPGs?

Fallout 1 and 2 are cartoony.

Nobody is talking about photorealism. It's about an aesthetic that became banal 10 years ago and is now popular again just because they've heard somewhere that it ages better. It doesn't have anything to do with "art", contemporary visual art is completely different than any game I've ever seen, so we can't even begin talking about (visual) art. It's an aesthetic choice that has overstayed its welcome.

Cartoony art has existed before you were born and it will exist long after you die. Dwell on that.

 

[Excidium II]

Fallout 1 and 2 are cartoony.

In a cool way. Like a gritty comic book.

 

[Ezrite]

Because transgender and gay characters existed in the past even in our world?
I see no reason why characters cannot run into one. This one is a Priest of fair standing so he/she can talk about it without fear of reprisal. And players ask him/her about it, it is not like he goes "heya I am Mizhana, a transgender."
And why he/she didn't try to change sex is probably between he/she and her God.

Normal transgender characters that are born into poor family and have no magical powers or influence in the surroundings cannot do shit about it (kind of like real world where the operations is super expensive).

Also I seen much worse SJW characters in Hollywood TV shows where they not only hamfist it but then talk about their unfair place in society and how they are fighting to change (and this is a show that is not about these themes but about people with gifts).

BUt why is it important? Gay and transgender existed yes, but why do this cleric think it is so fucking important to express her "mind gender" to the player? Why is it an option. Yeah between her and Tempus, the god of war who probably want this guy to focus on War and not caring what gender they are. It is a world where other races are called cause of being orc, or drow or goblin. You really think then their acceptance of "non binary" genders really are that high? What is next? The anti-racist squad? You know what happens in Faerun when people do shit like this? Icewind Dale 2s plotline happens, where the outsider races band up and start to attack human settlements. It wont be a "lol im a transgender orc and I want my human rights" nonsense.

Being transgender sounds like a typical Western Problem. Where they got nothing else to worry about then how they feel about their gender. There is plenty of those characters in Japanese games to but they do not need to punch us in the gut with it and point it out like many western creators felt to do of late.

As I said before. I would not lift a brow at all had it been in a modern setting or sci-fi but in a darker fantasy world I always find it very silly. Europeans used to burn people for being jews, women, sleeping with animals and god knows what. And most fantasy is inspired by the old world. And if they can toss rocks on a man for having green skin and fangs, they can probably toss rocks on a person saying they have a vagina, mentally but clearly is male. "I bet that weirdo sniffed the alchemists bottles bit to much!"

Yes. Blizzard's cartoony aesthetic is a bit garish though.



Fallout 1 and 2 are cartoony.



Cartoony art has existed before you were born and it will exist long after you die. Dwell on that.

I wouldn't call it cartoony in the same way as other games. And there is a diffrence between drawn games inspired by comics or something and cartoony games. The one I point to is the ugly aesthetics of games like Blizzards, Borderlands and the new Everquest. You know where they have big hands, big features, googly eyes and cutesy or over the top animations. Hell even The Old Republic MMO goes for this.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Japanese games tend to age a lot better than western ones, especially those that go for the cartoony aesthetic. I still find the visuals of games like tactics ogre or final Fantasy tactics to be enjoyable.

In the game of Bg EE tho, game looked fine as it was, there was no need to dick around with the character outlines, the map visuals and fonts, the Ui, the health bars, etc.

They should have stuck to fixing the bugs that were still unaddressed by the fix backs, optimizing the engine, and maybe add some content expansions if their writing talent was up to par.

Theres a lot of empty zones in Bg1 and a lot of map to fill in bg2.

 

[Lacrymas]

Cartoony art has existed before you were born and it will exist long after you die. Dwell on that.

What does that have to do with anything? A lot of things have and will exist far beyond our lifetimes, so what? We are talking about cartoony (cell-shaded?) graphics in video games and in video games it has become banal. In the visual arts it's probably been banal for a lot longer. It's overused and being like everyone else is suicide in any kind of art. It also doesn't have anything in common with contemporary art movements, so it's literally just an aesthetic choice they make, one that a lot of people have been making.

 

[pippin]

Japanese games tend to age a lot better than western ones, especially those that go for the cartoony aesthetic. I still find the visuals of games like tactics ogre or final Fantasy tactics to be enjoyable.

It's because the entertainment industry in Japan is made out of several niches, and the content providers know they'll be fucked if they don't cater to those niches. That's why most japanese games tend to have anime looks or relatively low budgets, at least in terms of aesthetics, when compared to western games.
Western devs have the renaissance man shit deeply coded into their brains, so they will always want to reinvent the wheel every time they make a game. Dude, we just want a turn based rpg, just give us that. BUT M-MUH ARTISTIC VISHUN!=!??!?!

That said, most jrpgs are really mediocre, even when they have tasteful mechanics such as turn based stuff and etc, and it doesn't have anything to do with anime-grinding can be very boring.

 

[Maggot]

With all this tranny talk you'd think there would be more than one in the expansion. Didn't ToEE have some controversy over a gay pirate you could marry?

 

[Roguey]

What does that have to do with anything? A lot of things have and will exist far beyond our lifetimes, so what? We are talking about cartoony (cell-shaded?) graphics in video games and in video games it has become banal. In the visual arts it's probably been banal for a lot longer. It's overused and being like everyone else is suicide in any kind of art. It also doesn't have anything in common with contemporary art movements, so it's literally just an aesthetic choice they make, one that a lot of people have been making.

I wish it were used more. Divinity Original Sin and Shadowrun have such superior looking character models compared to other Kickstarter RPGs and neither looks like the other despite both being cartoony.

 

[Trashos]

With all this tranny talk you'd think there would be more than one in the expansion. Didn't ToEE have some controversy over a gay pirate you could marry?

In Arcanum you can fuck a sheep.

 

[Excidium II]

What does that have to do with anything? A lot of things have and will exist far beyond our lifetimes, so what? We are talking about cartoony (cell-shaded?) graphics in video games and in video games it has become banal. In the visual arts it's probably been banal for a lot longer. It's overused and being like everyone else is suicide in any kind of art. It also doesn't have anything in common with contemporary art movements, so it's literally just an aesthetic choice they make, one that a lot of people have been making.

I wish it were used more. Divinity Original Sin and Shadowrun have such superior looking character models compared to other Kickstarter RPGs and neither looks like the other despite both being cartoony.

PoE characters look way better (though the better looking gear also helps). Except for the grainy look certain armor pieces get from afar.

 

[Roguey]

PoE characters look way better. Except for the grainy look certain armors get from afar.

Couldn't disagree more, Pillars characters look 3D-gross to me. Even with the slight stylization they have in Tyranny with its unsuccessfully-cartoony style.

 

[Ezrite]

I wish it were used more. Divinity Original Sin and Shadowrun have such superior looking character models compared to other Kickstarter RPGs and neither looks like the other despite both being cartoony.

Honestly, they look okay but not much more. Original Sin looks beautiful but almost bit to bright. But there is decent or okay cartoon and then there is WoW cartoon. Hell I think cartoon is a bad word for it to.

 

[Excidium II]

PoE characters look way better. Except for the grainy look certain armors get from afar.

Couldn't disagree more, Pillars characters look 3D-gross to me. Even with the slight stylization they have in Tyranny with its unsuccessfully-cartoony style.

3D gross is the way I'd define DOS grafics.

 

[Maggot]

As I said before. I would not lift a brow at all had it been in a modern setting or sci-fi but in a darker fantasy world I always find it very silly. Europeans used to burn people for being jews, women, sleeping with animals and god knows what. And most fantasy is inspired by the old world. And if they can toss rocks on a man for having green skin and fangs, they can probably toss rocks on a person saying they have a vagina, mentally but clearly is male. "I bet that weirdo sniffed the alchemists bottles bit to much!"

You know there were points in the middle ages where jews were accepted in Europe, right? Depending on the pope they were accepted or expelled from Rome and they had a pretty good time in the early middle ages. Also painting all of history as anti-homosexual is a bit ridiculous considering how faggy Greeks and Romans could be. Hell, even celts were fags.