Baldur's Gate #BaldurGate: Siege of Dragonspear

[makchanka]

I remember the Minsc quote. It was really funny. Tons of screechy nerds got triggered.

So diversity or multiculturalism or whatever = SJW now. That's... huh. I guess it shouldn't be unexpected. Thanks for the image.

 

[Lacrymas]

Are you new to the internet or the last few years in general?

 

[Feyd Rautha]

What was the famous minsc quote?

 

[Naveen]

Something like "It's actually about heroics in adventuring," lampooning the "It's actually about ethics in journalism" from gaymergate. That one was removed quickly once people noticed it, and Trent Oster apologized iirc.

People focus too much on those things, though, but even if you remove all the "sjw" elements, the game still fails at basic storytelling and the writing contradicts many fundamental ideas of D&D and how the Forgotten Realms works (alignment, for example.) I enjoyed the combat and some dungeons, but I couldn't endure the game past a certain point, and the reason was the writing. It's Phantom Menace levels of nonsense.

 

[Lacrymas]

"Really, it's all about ethics in heroic adventuring"

 

[Glaucon]

The 'SJWs aren't so bad' act is tiresome and obvious. There are some people (i imagine quite a few in this forum) who rly do dislike seeing in games any hint of homosexuality or female 'empowerment' or anything else that seems even remotely progressive. For the most part, that's not what people mean when they're talking about SJWS in gaming. The moralism, the hamfisted pandering to that moralism, the fanatical insistence on transforming art (and inevitably on pressuring artists)--this seems to be the main gripe, beyond a concern about 'ethics in journalism'.

 

[octavius]

How interesting can it be to write about persons who are defined solely by their "gender identity"?

 

[Lacrymas]

How interesting can it be to write about persons who are defined solely by their "gender identity"?

The problem is that she thinks she's writing about either straight/white/cis people or not, i.e. that's what her thought process is when she's writing, that character A is either s/w/c or not. And she just chooses the "not" part. As opposed to writing them as people who are part of a story.

Anyway, decided to try this abortion to see what Lilura is banging on about. After SCS it feels waaaay too easy, so I bumped the difficulty to insanity. It's still easy, but the ridiculous number of extra spawns means that I put my char (insanely good Fighter/Druid tank) and Viconia to tank with protection from fire and ring of fire resistance and just use Edwin and Baeloth to spam Fireballs so it goes by faster. It really isn't hard, just more fodder for the slaughter. There aren't enough evil characters for an all-evil run lololol. It's also missing a useful Thief, I could use the Helm of Opposite Alignment on Glint, but Viconia is a better Cleric than him and I decided to use the helm on Corwin. Safana is very weak due to being a pure Thief.

 

[Lacrymas]

The first section after Baldur's Gate wasn't bad in terms of variety of content and things to do. The Dwarves of Dumathoin was actually quite good. There's a lot of OOC dialogue from various characters and it's jarring coming from BG1. Your character is somehow always a pussy, even the "evil" options are just obnoxious and obvious rather than sinister. I catch myself thinking a lot what is the least shitty thing to say because all the dialogue options are various degrees of pussy. The second wilderness map is done in like 10 minutes, however.

 

[Immortal]

The 'SJWs aren't so bad' act is tiresome and obvious. There are some people (i imagine quite a few in this forum) who rly do dislike seeing in games any hint of homosexuality or female 'empowerment' or anything else that seems even remotely progressive. For the most part, that's not what people mean when they're talking about SJWS in gaming. The moralism, the hamfisted pandering to that moralism, the fanatical insistence on transforming art (and inevitably on pressuring artists)--this seems to be the main gripe, beyond a concern about 'ethics in journalism'.

I remember when pandering was considered insulting.
How shaky does someones belief system need to be, that they need constant validation from peers and media that they are"on the right side of history" ?

Really gets the Noggin Jogging.

 

[Rev]

Minsc literally had a quip about GamerGate... Also, this (the second post) -

The funny thing about these quotes is that SJWs usually get in rage about the infamous "white saviour" trope and stuff like that, and then they do the same whenever they get the chance: "they don't get represented, so I, white American man/woman, will go and fix this problem all by myself and include them in a game" as if people from other cultures/ethnicities/sexual orientation/whatever couldn't work on games and add their perspective, which would be a lot more interesting and a "truer" representation of "diversity" than having a 30-something American woman turn a generic NPC into black/asian/gay/trans and call it a day.
"Great, now I made a cleric transexual character who tell you she used to be a man after you say hello to her and is solely define by her sexuality, now all trans people over the world will feel welcome because I saved them from being underrepresented in videogames, I'm really a great person", yeah sure, indeed you are Miss Scott.

 

[Lacrymas]

Maybe we should stop discussing the SJW bs and focus on the actual game ;d Speaking of, still using the same strategy of herding everyone to Viconia and my char and mowing them down with fireballs. Literally every encounter goes like that, mobs can't do anything about it. Mages are pathetic, they cast their buffs and stand there slinging bullets.

 

[Rev]

Maybe we should stop discussing the SJW bs and focus on the actual game

But if we do that, we would have to discussed about a terribly written expansion of a 19 years old game no one asked for. At least, the controversy around it provided some fun value, more than the game itself ever did.

 

[makchanka]

Are you new to the internet or the last few years in general?

the term "SJW" has changed so much in the past few years and I generally don't keep abreast of what the other side of the manbaby coin cries about. I generally tend to stay out of shrieky shitfights between groups of idiots who care too much about the internet. I honestly should have expected it to go full "muh ethnostate" but it's still kind of startling to see that shit out in the wild regardless. the liberal sjws (they're both fucking sjws at this point, let's be real) are right on track to be claiming Pinochet was a woke bae, so it's honestly not that much of a shock.

The 'SJWs aren't so bad' act is tiresome and obvious. There are some people (i imagine quite a few in this forum) who rly do dislike seeing in games any hint of homosexuality or female 'empowerment' or anything else that seems even remotely progressive. For the most part, that's not what people mean when they're talking about SJWS in gaming. The moralism, the hamfisted pandering to that moralism, the fanatical insistence on transforming art (and inevitably on pressuring artists)--this seems to be the main gripe, beyond a concern about 'ethics in journalism'.

It's not that "SJWs aren't so bad," it's that the term changes so often and incorporates so many groups that it's meaningless. What we called SJWs like 8 years ago aren't the same as what NRx calls SJWs today

like, yes, of course, the sort of people you're talking about all exist and they suck. the problem is that you've got actual criticisms about annoying "check your privilege" types alongside people claiming that black people in games is literally white genocide. both of these idiots are fanatical in their insistence to control the art of others. you've got one group of middle class feminists who feel "empowered" whenever hillary kills a brown kid in Latin America and another group of middle class anti-feminists who feel "empowered" whenever trump kills a brown kid in the middle east and they're both screeching at each other about nothing in particular. it's the same group of socially retarded, politically illiterate assholes being played against each other over fucking video games so that sargon or whatever liberal feminist talking head gets patreon bucks.

none of it is really worth paying attention to. i don't know why the internet gets so worked up over such idiotic shit. gamergate is full of morons and should be made fun of. anti-gamergate was largely made up of morons and should be made fun of. anyone who gets their worldview from talking heads on youtube is a moron.

the game was good. 9/10 imo.

 

[Lacrymas]

But if we do that, we would have to discussed about a terribly written expansion of a 19 years old game no one asked for. At least, the controversy around it provided some fun value, more than the game itself ever did.

It's the lack of creativity that is the main problem, the writing is shit tier, yes, but it recycles so much from BG1 and 2 that it feels like a remix of them. The only new creature I've seen up to now was the Neothelid, the model is so obviously new that it contrasts with the background lol. Voice acting is horrendous for non-companions, and even they are wobbly. If you've never played BG2 you won't notice how much liberties it takes and you might have fun with it until it eventually, I assume, turns to shit. At least up to where I am now it doesn't deserve to be bombarded with 1 out of 10s and 1 out of 5s (at most 3 out of 5, more like 2.5) and I think they genuinely tried to make an homage to the BG series, but they went about it wrong way, they made a patchwerk of their experiences and memories of the games - kinda like them, but a pale, ill-remembered illusion.

 

[Alienman]

Lol another both sides are equally bad.

 

[Lacrymas]

So, I killed the last boss yesterday. Since I'm playing on Insane it truly was insane in a good way. Overall SoD is not bad and the story makes more sense than PoE's. That said, there's zero character drama, the characters make theatrically grand proclamations without having earned them and make little sense in context. It's absolutely disconnected from either BG1 or 2 in both tone and storyline. I actually struggle with finding the words to describe it because it's kinda ...nothing. It's basically one big mess with no coherent structure or idea. There are many little ideas that are strewn about and some of them are fun, but they don't gel well and don't amount to anything. Conflicts are resolved almost as fast as they pop up and are swiftly forgotten. Even big decisions like what to do with Bridgefort are swept under the rug and don't come up at all even at the end titular "siege". The siege itself can be resolved very fast if your main character is good at fighting and not dying from continual fire at the same time. I'm not gonna spoil anything because it's a new game, but there's nothing really TO spoil. The characters, their motivations and their actions are clear and obvious the moment they open their mouths. There's only one character who I thought would do something specific, but they didn't and it was even lamer for it. There's some class-based reactivity, it's token, but it's there.

Companions are very one-dimensional. I was running with Edwin, Viconia, Dorn, Baeloth and Corwin (with the Helm of Opposite Alignment). There's really nothing to say about Viconia, Edwin and Dorn, they are one-dimensional to a fault and just go through the motions. There was some jarring OOC talk from Viconia at two points, but that doesn't make her an interesting character. There's a lot of OOC talk in general and I found it in bad taste. Behind all his theatricalities Baeloth sometimes shows himself to be a petty sadist and he's creepy for it, if they had more writing talent he would've been a good character. I told Corwin to shut up about her personal life in the very beginning, but Lilura says she's the second best written character after M'khiin. Speaking of M'khiin, a LOT of the items in the game are tailored for her. She can pretty much be totally equipped with items either specifically made for her or for shamans in general. I was jealous lol.

There were some good encounters and some good itemization, but I thought that some items are too specific in their usage. Like an amulet that gives perma-Bless, but also + 1 Wisdom to ONLY Shapeshifters (the druid kit). There are many such items that are better for specific kits, as opposed to whole classes and, as a druid, I found 1 item for me and it was that amulet (while I'm not a shapeshifter). There are some well-made encounters, but generally it was pretty cheap on Insane. The game throws massive numbers of enemies at you on that difficulty and that's why the tactic of rounding up everything and bombarding them with Fireballs is so effective. They like to throw in a bunch of spellcasters as well and you are bound to fail a saving throw every. single. time. if you don't have immunities and sometimes it got frustrating. I wouldn't play it on a lower difficulty, though. The AI isn't stupid either and it will fuck you up even without big numbers. What more can I say? All in all it's a popcorn game, not a bad way to spend some time, but it won't blow your mind, quite the contrary, if you think too much about it it soils itself. If you want some more IE combat and want to start BG2 with a little bit more experience go for it.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Lol another both sides are equally bad.

Both sides are indeed uneducated morons. Otherwise they would not be participating.

 

[Lacrymas]

I forgot to mention the BUGS, I ran into like 5 different bugs in my single playthrough. The biggest one is losing the Golden Pantaloons (in the epilogue) and having to EEKeeper it in!

 

[octavius]

I had told myself I would buy this game when the price was reduced by at least 50%. Well, the game is now discounted by 50% at GOG, and I was about to buy it, but then I read the reviews...
I only read the first of the 40 pages but the only positive thing mentioned was that David Warner is back as voice actor, but based on that one page it seems the GOGsters are even more hostile (in a more polite way, course) to it than the Codexers are.

New Objectives:
Find a way to run SCS with the BG EE versions without requiring Dragonspear.
If not, wait untill the price is reduced to at least 75%.

 

[Lacrymas]

I think SCS works fine without Dragonspear, since the newest version was released years before Dragonspear. If not you should google some answers, I think you need a few workarounds. Like I said, the 1/10 reviews are based on ideology, rather than anything with the game itself. Yes, the writing is shit, but it's still the IE combat with some good encounters and itemization. It could've been 10 thousand times better, sure, but it isn't.

 

[Morkar Left]

You could buy the Avernum games instead. They are ridiculously cheap: Complete Saga (old games) for 1,19$ and Avernum I Remake for 0,99 $.

Not sure if I should go for Dragonpear. I have that goal to replay a heavy modded BG in the future and Dragonspear would fit in I guess. Maybe it's even necessary but I'm worried they fucked up the chars too much and that the balance will be off. Will contemplate about it this week.

 

[Lacrymas]

I haven't played BG2 with my SoD-imported character yet, I've only completed Chateau Irenicus, but since an SCS component prevents you from resting in there it was as tense as ever. I can imagine the balance being fucked if not playing with SCS, however, I think I even read something about that somewhere, but with SCS it's fine since tactics are way more important than stats.

 

[Delterius]

It really depends on what class you're playing. Paladins and Rangers only get one more level. Monks and Clerics get 4.

One thing you'll have to consider is the timing of your Dual Classing. If you're used to dualing at level 9 as a Fighter/Caster, finishing SoD is going to be that much more frustrating. Unless you go for a Fighter/Druid but oh man, have you seen those requirements? No wonder nobody talks about that options.

 

[Lacrymas]

It really depends on what class you're playing. Paladins and Rangers only get one more level. Monks and Clerics get 4.

That's not true. The cap in SoD is 500k, so at most you can get 2 levels with any class, including cleric and monk. What you DO get that most imbalances the whole thing is another spell circle for each of the spellcasting classes, except mages.