Asherons Call 1/2 closing their doors Jan 31

[belowmecoldhands]

This news us a month old, but I couldn't find it in this forum:
https://www.engadget.com/2016/12/21/asherons-call-to-shut-down/

A thread in the game forums:
https://www.asheronscall.com/en/forums/showthread.php?73579-Shutdown-Times

This is the newest thread I could find on the codex about AC:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...call-the-most-beautiful-mmorpg-of-all.107819/

It looks like they tried to enable users to make private servers, but it didn't pan out.

Here're some videos showing what AC was/is like:

Circa 2009:


Circa 2014:


Circa 2016:


Circa 2017:


The Darktide server--PvP--considered one of the best by many:


What I regret most is never playing it. I have tremendous respect for it however. And I think someone somewhere will try to emulate it. One way or another, it'll seep its way int games intentionally or not.

 

[Mustawd]

Early 3D never ages well. Guessing why this never took off, but there are still private UO servers around.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

I'll add one more media. This video goes over its history and why it was special. Good watching.

Circa 2017:

 

[belowmecoldhands]

Early 3D never ages well. Guessing why this never took off, but there are still private UO servers around.

You have a valid point, but not all of us are that way. I can't remember the last time I played a game merely because of its graphics. I was just watching this AC grandpa youtube video and he says "Everyting else looks like crap." I think he didn't mean graphics at all. I talk the same way. He meant how the game plays and all that jazz.

I think the larger reason it's coming down now, after its reboot in 2012, was money and/or desire. The people or company(s) behind this--Turbine?--were losing money and/or desire. Me saying this is like those commercials on TV "If you switch to Geico you can save 15% on your car insurance." It's the answer to almost everything.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio...

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

My favorite MMORPG ever. Had an endlessly customizable character building system, huge world that you could get lost in while you explore in areas where tougher monsters could eat you alive. It was amazing. There is nothing else really like it in MMORPGs now (that I'm aware of, anyway).

 

[Hobo Elf]

I don't care what people say; AC2 was amazing.

 

[Scroo]

Damn I wanted to try this but kept procrastinating and now it's too late :<

 

[Mustawd]

You have a valid point, but not all of us are that way

I wasn't referring to myself.

Anyhow, it might not even be a valid point as EQ still has servers around and it's early 3D as well.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

i played some ac2 and felt to me like a gigantic pyramid scheme. this dude went around recruiting as many people as he could because the work of us grunts gave him xp/money/whatever and kept recruiting more and more so that somebody higher than him in the command chain could earn even more.
that's how it's been explained to me. i quit soon afterward.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

i played some ac2 and felt to me like a gigantic pyramid scheme. this dude went around recruiting as many people as he could because the work of us grunts gave him xp/money/whatever and kept recruiting more and more so that somebody higher than him in the command chain could earn even more.
that's how it's been explained to me. i quit soon afterward.

No one forces new players to pledge to anyone, that's their choice. A good Patron experience consists of the Patron taking care of the players that pledged to them, and thus the Patron is taken care of by the rank above him, and so on. In the past you've have guild meetings where people from your guild would attend, make sure everything was on the up and up and everyone was taken care of. Your Patron would be responsible for helping you out, i.e. weapons, armor, starting gold, showing you the ropes and how the guild housing worked, etc. Once you got to the point where you could be a Patron yourself you had to take care of the players who pledged to you. If not they would often drop out and pledge to someone else, so you had an incentive to take good care of your peeps. If you didn't then your pyramid ended right there.

I think it was a very cool system that you don't see a lot of nowadays.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

so it *is* a pyramid scheme.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

so it *is* a pyramid scheme.

I guess...? Technically it is a pyramid. Generally doing what you described (running around recruiting as many people as you can) was not a very successful strategy in the game. But yes, people above you earned a share of the XP for people they recruited. I don't remember if that actively cut into the earned XP, i.e. if you earned 1000 XP you'd only get 900 and your Patron would get 100 of that. Or if you still received 1000 and the Patron received an "extra" 100. Can't remember. But again, if your scheme was to do what you described it wasn't really going to get you too far since most people would drop out from under you if you weren't actively taking care of them.

 

[Stokowski]

Make Thistledown Great Again!

 

[Lunac]

Still only game to have uninterrupted 550 square mile landmass to explore. No zones, no loading screens. Mountains to climb, rivers to cross. This was done in 90s with an engine ultimately updated to Dx9 feature set, something tons of games utilize today so there was ways to make it look fresh for gfx tards if need be. Makes me think this is what a better looking Daggerfall in MMO form would look like.


...
..
.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Yeah, the map was freaking awesome. I have very fond memories of exploring it, getting lost and getting wrekt by some tough monster I ran into. Then having to run back with a friend and try to recover it because my good stuff was still on the corpse. Good times.

Speaking of Daggerfall, when is a modern RPG dev going to make a new Daggerfall-style RPG? That could be interesting if done well.

 

[Thane Solus]

Good game, good content, unbalanced and never fixed. Recently somebody opened the main emu server, phat ac, and its full of botters just like on official. Fuck 2002+ AC players, beside maybe non macroers on DT, the dumbest and clueless players ive seen. 80% bot all day long and pretend that they played the game and they ask themselves why the game died after 2003-2004. Most of the people got fed up with bots and macroers, and only the retardo remained (which say that vtank saved the game lol)...which now are on phat ac, and when you ask them, they look at you and think you are stupid, AC was meant to play with afk macros, you wot mate? (most of them never played a real mmo beside AC Macro). Such a interesting game, plagued by a retardo Dev(after 2002, they let everybody bot) and a huge retarded community starting when afk macros reached the game.


/rant

 

[Norfleet]

If it's a "good game" that's "full of bots", it's not a good game, because a game that is best played by a robot is a shit game without any interesting decisions for you to make, otherwise the decisions wouldn't have been outsourced to a robot! You wouldn't say a job that can be best done by a robot is a good job, so why would you say that a game which can be best played by a robot is a good game?

 

[Thane Solus]

If it's a "good game" that's "full of bots", it's not a good game, because a game that is best played by a robot is a shit game without any interesting decisions for you to make, otherwise the decisions wouldn't have been outsourced to a robot! You wouldn't say a job that can be best done by a robot is a good job, so why would you say that a game which can be best played by a robot is a good game?

That is not far from the true, i while i never boted, besides having a buff bot at some point (2004,raised manually), the most incloosive players jumped on the bots. Instead, i stopped playing the game, but not because i found it grindy, maybe a lack of a good structure and progression, its because the players turned into bots and buff bots. And now on the private servers, which are pre 2005 and quite alpha, of course everybody(60-80% are bots "for testing", or because "grind"), 5-10 characters each at the same time, cause that's how MMOs are played.

But yeah the cause was the clueless developers, which created good content, some great features, but without a good progression and structure, and they only woke in 2005, only 6 years later...after they let every exploitable plugin including bots rape their game, and having their game deserted since like 2003-2004...They went under Microsoft, then bought themself out,got bought again by Warner and failed just about everything they released and now they are dead. What was left formed another company that manages Lotro and DDO for now...which are interesting games, but mediocre and failed in the first years turning into free to play.

 

[Stokowski]

If it's a "good game" that's "full of bots", it's not a good game, because a game that is best played by a robot is a shit game without any interesting decisions for you to make, otherwise the decisions wouldn't have been outsourced to a robot! You wouldn't say a job that can be best done by a robot is a good job, so why would you say that a game which can be best played by a robot is a good game?

All decisions made in a game could theoretically be made better by an appropriately design automated system. Games that are full of bots tend to be so because their input/control method allows for automated interactivity, less because of the decision making process behind the input. And this has little to do directly with the fundamental "goodness" of a game, save that bot infestation makes that gameplay (good or bad) less accessible to actual players.

 

[Norfleet]

All decisions made in a game could theoretically be made better by an appropriately design automated system.

Theoretically. But if such a thing isn't being practically achieved, then for now, your game is still good. Otherwise, it's banal, shit, boring. You ask yourself: WHAT, exactly, is being outsourced to robots, and WHY? Odds are you're looking at the parts of the game which are banal, shit, boring, and if that part comprises the dominant majority of your game, thus inspiring people to bot it at all, YOUR GAME IS SHIT.

Games that are full of bots tend to be so because their input/control method allows for automated interactivity, less because of the decision making process behind the input.

But if automating the interactivity works out better than playing the game normally, then the issue at hand is straightforward: YOU HAVE A SHITTY GAME.

And this has little to do directly with the fundamental "goodness" of a game, save that bot infestation makes that gameplay (good or bad) less accessible to actual players.

If the game were good, you wouldn't CARE whether the other players were humans or robots. People whine because the robots are outperforming them by a wide margin. You don't hear complaints about heavily bot-infested games where the bots are LOSING. Because you know what ELSE is a game populated entirely by bots? SINGLE PLAYER games. But nobody here complains about the bots infesting THOSE. Consider Space Rangers, which, in the way it is designed, is practically a single player MMO where all the other players are bots. But you don't bitch about the bots because they're easy to stomp on. So mostly, you hate losing, and you hate losing to robots, because you're a racist.

The fact of the matter is, there are GOOD games which are heavily accessible to bots, mostly rather old games. In those games, people openly bot them, and yet human players still play the game, either to fight and outwit said bots, or to create better bots to fight other bots. Those are good games: You don't mind that your opponent is a robot, the game still contains interesting decisions and you can still win. When the game consists entirely of repetitive banality, THAT is when you see a veritable plague of bots and the humans complain about them: Because the humans are BAD at the game because it's a BORING GAME FOR ROBOTS.

 

[Thane Solus]

All decisions made in a game could theoretically be made better by an appropriately design automated system.

Theoretically. But if such a thing isn't being practically achieved, then for now, your game is still good. Otherwise, it's banal, shit, boring. You ask yourself: WHAT, exactly, is being outsourced to robots, and WHY? Odds are you're looking at the parts of the game which are banal, shit, boring, and if that part comprises the dominant majority of your game, thus inspiring people to bot it at all, YOUR GAME IS SHIT.

Games that are full of bots tend to be so because their input/control method allows for automated interactivity, less because of the decision making process behind the input.

But if automating the interactivity works out better than playing the game normally, then the issue at hand is straightforward: YOU HAVE A SHITTY GAME.

And this has little to do directly with the fundamental "goodness" of a game, save that bot infestation makes that gameplay (good or bad) less accessible to actual players.

If the game were good, you wouldn't CARE whether the other players were humans or robots. People whine because the robots are outperforming them by a wide margin. You don't hear complaints about heavily bot-infested games where the bots are LOSING. Because you know what ELSE is a game populated entirely by bots? SINGLE PLAYER games. But nobody here complains about the bots infesting THOSE. Consider Space Rangers, which, in the way it is designed, is practically a single player MMO where all the other players are bots. But you don't bitch about the bots because they're easy to stomp on. So mostly, you hate losing, and you hate losing to robots, because you're a racist.

The fact of the matter is, there are GOOD games which are heavily accessible to bots, mostly rather old games. In those games, people openly bot them, and yet human players still play the game, either to fight and outwit said bots, or to create better bots to fight other bots. Those are good games: You don't mind that your opponent is a robot, the game still contains interesting decisions and you can still win. When the game consists entirely of repetitive banality, THAT is when you see a veritable plague of bots and the humans complain about them: Because the humans are BAD at the game because it's a BORING GAME FOR ROBOTS.

I don't think you toke in consideration what happens when a large portion of the server tuns into bots, which i am starting to think that you boted a lot in AC (might be wrong, hopefully...) or you one of the script dudes that like to program automated things, cause they have no other better things to do, like create things... programs, games and so on, but i guess botting programs can be an achievement if you sell them and say fuck yea, capitalism! i destroyed an other game, yay for me..."insert Kotick laugh"

1) When large portion are boting, they produce an unearned amount of currency which destroys the so called economy. A dude sells a shadow frag for 1 D, the rich bot, pays 5 Ds, price raises because, money are created with no effort, or in RL out of nothing. So automatically there is no balance on the server, since many can buy stuff easily, get equipment early and trash the others, control whatever they want (towns, houses bought, mansion bought, items and so on)


2) Level difference, since in this game, higher level means better skills, better access of equipment and weapons, that increases the difference between normal players and bots. Which in the end make those leave, which exactly what happens with AC...Botters stayed, normal players left. And i can tell you by now, that most didn't left because of the grind, left because half of the community turned into bots. I remember well that.

I can understand that its not fun to grind, i played some of the most grindy games ever made, but i was never in a hurry for highest level because that is retarded and useless. Take it easy and enjoy yourself, dont become a bot or some weird south korean drone. But most people are brainwashed to be selfish idiots that want to become number 1(high level) because they saw Rocky V, or some other inane shit.

MMOs should be balanced, not cheated but some idiots which in their real life are cheated by other big idiots(Boss, goverment, family, whoever) and they try do the same in a gaming environment, because in RL are fucking useless...

 

[Norfleet]

I don't think you toke in consideration what happens when a large portion of the server tuns into bots, which i am starting to think that you boted a lot in AC (might be wrong, hopefully...)

I've never played AC personally. Just known a bunch of guys who have. I do, however, have a keen interest in game economics and design.

or you one of the script dudes that like to program automated things, cause they have no other better things to do, like create things... programs, games and so on

Who DOESN'T like Factorio?

1) When large portion are boting, they produce an unearned amount of currency which destroys the so called economy. A dude sells a shadow frag for 1 D, the rich bot, pays 5 Ds, price raises because, money are created with no effort, or in RL out of nothing. So automatically there is no balance on the server, since many can buy stuff easily, get equipment early and trash the others, control whatever they want (towns, houses bought, mansion bought, items and so on)

See, here's where I go back to "Shitty Game". If economic production is simply a question of throwing more machines at it in the game, YOUR GAME'S ECONOMY WAS ALWAYS SHIT. You've created a game where there's an effectively free, unlimited supply of labor (robots owned by players) and little to no capital requirements (possession of game infrastructure not dependent on merely creating an account). YOUR GAME'S ECONOMY IS SHIT AND IT DESERVES TO FAIL.

2) Level difference, since in this game, higher level means better skills, better access of equipment and weapons, that increases the difference between normal players and bots. Which in the end make those leave, which exactly what happens with AC...Botters stayed, normal players left. And i can tell you by now, that most didn't left because of the grind, left because half of the community turned into bots. I remember well that.

In other words, your game's advancement, combat, and equipment system is shit, because it's a dumb game a simple robot can win at. We're clearly not talking about fighting Google DeepMind AI here.

I can understand that its not fun to grind, i played some of the most grindy games ever made, but i was never in a hurry for highest level because that is retarded and useless. Take it easy and enjoy yourself, dont become a bot or some weird south korean drone. But most people are brainwashed to be selfish idiots that want to become number 1(high level) because they saw Rocky V, or some other inane shit.

People aren't BRAINWASHED to be that way, this is the NATURAL HUMAN URGE to WIN. If we weren't interested in winning, we'd have never left the trees, remaining tree sloths to this day.

In other words, stop making shit games based around boring, repetitive grinding, then somehow blaming robots for being the only ones good at your shitty, shitty game. Just look at Factorio, that game IS about botting everything.

Bots don't ruin games, they just reveal that the game was always shit to begin with.

 

[Thane Solus]

I've never played AC personally. Just known a bunch of guys who have. I do, however, have a keen interest in game economics and design.

That makes sense, good for you

In other words, stop making shit games based around boring, repetitive grinding, then somehow blaming robots for being the only ones good at your shitty, shitty game. Just look at Factorio, that game IS about botting everything.

Bots don't ruin games, they just reveal that the game was always shit to begin with.

This was the first 3D MMO, released in 1999. It had tons of good content, one of the best housing system, a great character system, magic system and a huge world. So it wasn't a shit game. What happen was, that the developers didn't improved the game a lot on the progression, structure, basic accessibility features, like having a proper map and things like that, until 2005, when they release another expansion, but that was like 5 years too late and even then they didn't fix most of the problems. And thus all this madness and 1 gazillions of plugins.

At the same your theory that every MMO is shit if you or "have to" automate things with bots, well that can be applied to 90% of MMOs, and i can assure that they were many good at there, and people started botted because they were lazy fucks. Even in WOW after Vanilla, which is one of the most casual games, there was botting while reaching a high level could be done by a blind monkey with Alzheimer, beside dungeons that needed some tactics and a bit of IQ, which 50% of time was missing)) whats tanking?

If you study design, you cannot say that a game is shit (imho), because the progression is broken, when other features of the game were quite innovative or very good. Thats why people played AC up to a point. You can say its a interesting game but broken on a certain feature, lacks certain things, or rough gem

With that idea, just about every decent game out there would be shit, because one of the main features is broken, which is not really far from the true, but i dont agree with it. And i still dont agree that AC was grindy, it had a lack of proper structure on quest and your progression. I mean the world was so big that you had to study and try several locations to progress, to see if that is a good spot to "grind" or maybe make kill quests, or quests that give xp and so on. Unfortunately because people started boting at some point and the feedback from them was quite limited on progression, and Developers said oh yeah everything its ok, no, it wasn't ))

 

[Helton]

Hypothetically, say I have a "good" game. Hell, say I have the best possible, ultimate awesome perfect game, whatever that would be for you. Then say I add a single new activity, shit shoveling. Its barely mentioned in the patch notes. Shit shoveling gives you a small amount of money and xp, way less time-efficient than running appropriate content, but its easy and repetitive.

Is the mere existence of this feature enough to take my perfect game to shit status? Because that seems to be what Norfleet is saying.