Amazon ships an MMORPG - New World

[Norfleet]

But if you can't "lose your stuff", then the only reason to kill anyone at all is to grief them, and this isn't exactly popular either. Even in no-stuff-loss scenarios, people don't seem to enjoy being killed over and over by some guy who's clearly doing it just to torment them since he gains nothing from it.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Except in this one, you can get banned for milking a cow.

Reminder that in project gorgon you can be turned into a cow and milk yourself(or let other players milk you)

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/project-gorgon.106812/

 

[Yosharian]

The ban that was issued to that girl was a mistake and it was rectified more or less straight away by a GM

 

[Zeriel]

But if you can't "lose your stuff", then the only reason to kill anyone at all is to grief them, and this isn't exactly popular either. Even in no-stuff-loss scenarios, people don't seem to enjoy being killed over and over by some guy who's clearly doing it just to torment them since he gains nothing from it.

Lineage 2 remains the gold standard for PVP MMOs. Probably will until the end of time now that MMOs are declining into oblivion.

 

[Norfleet]

The ban that was issued to that girl was a mistake and it was rectified more or less straight away by a GM

Obviously it was a mistake, but it was only rectified because the individual was famous enough to get immediate attention. If you are a NOBODY and get banned over bullshit, good luck fighting your way through customer support.

Also, what the hell kind of mistake would involve banning someone over milking a cow? Those people are clearly cray-cray.

 

[Ulysa]

I'm not lying to myself, this game will feel empty pretty soon once I explore it a bit. But right now I need a stupid game where I can mindlessly grind like an idiot while I watch the sunset. Weekends I can play like a more real game.
Pvp could be fun, bah who am I kidding, it won't be fun once kids start one shooting me.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

But if you can't "lose your stuff", then the only reason to kill anyone at all is to grief them, and this isn't exactly popular either. Even in no-stuff-loss scenarios, people don't seem to enjoy being killed over and over by some guy who's clearly doing it just to torment them since he gains nothing from it.

Yes, but those pvp survival mp games are successful so it doesn't look like a big enough problem to scare most players away, there might be something there if you can find a way to prevent players from running into each other repeatedly unless they add each other. (instances?)

Also, what the hell kind of mistake would involve banning someone over milking a cow? Those people are clearly cray-cray.

It's crafting (creating milk item) so maybe it was wrongly flagged as duping.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Didn't the ban thing happen to a bunch of streamers?

They were trying to make it so streamers accounts skipped the queue process and kinda fucked it up, the fact she was milking a cow when it happened was just comedy timing.

 

[Norfleet]

Yes, but those pvp survival mp games are successful so it doesn't look like a big enough problem to scare most players away, there might be something there if you can find a way to prevent players from running into each other repeatedly unless they add each other. (instances?)

Honestly, it probably HAS scared most people away. It's just that those games were willing to take the hit and target their niche.

 

[Trans-Financial-Man]

Played the 2017 alpha version that everyone talks about and wishes they got instead, it sucked and everyone quit because they got sick of being ganked on the beach by someone twenty times their level. If you want to jerk yourself off over how hardcore you are... Go play Darkfall, Mortal Online or some other dead PvP gankbox you've probably never heard of with good reason.

The issue is, New World WAS a PvP game. it was promised as one. A game different from WoW. A genre badly neglected. And then it was changed because of a vocal minority of testers. If you want consequence free carebare gaming go play WoW and it's many derivatives. In the old days of UO when someone was a PKer we harassed them till they stopped because we all understood that that was the deal with an open world sandbox. Protect your shit or lose it. There's a thrill there to the people interested in such games. To remove that would damage player agency. Let the niche game be niche. Most people understand that PvP focused MMOs are niche. No one claims such a game would be a huge hit. But they can be modest successes and there is a fanbase for them. As we have seen with the success of Mortal Online 2's recent public test and with Ashes of Creation. Even ESO's Cyrodil PvP map has gained popularity in an otherwise bland as shit MMO.

 

[Gerrard]

A "vocal minority of testers"? It was a closed test, so why the fuck did people who didn't want to voice their opinions play it?

 

[Trans-Financial-Man]

A "vocal minority of testers"? It was a closed test, so why the fuck did people who didn't want to voice their opinions play it?

From what I understand they cold called/emailed a random assortment of streamers in addition to testers and they were the ones most vocal about changing the game. Because they were fucking normies.

 

[deama]

Asking streamers for game opinions... not a great idea imo, only a few know wtf they're talking about.

 

[Seethe]

Its shit.

This is the retard who compared WoW with Dark Souls, isn't he?

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I'm on Yeuval , EU Central.

Charcter name is Seannach

 

[Whisper]

I'm not entirely sure Mack is being fair to the game honestly. I do like Mack's content and usually he has something interesting to say. But some of the points he raised in this video were pretty off the mark.

For example, he said:

• There's no way to buff/debuff: wrong, there are plenty of abilities that buff/debuff
• No way to parry the enemy: there are blocks?
• You can't kite: there are several abilities which kite, stun, snare, etc
• You can't interrupt: there are abilities which interrupt.

Also:

• Tab-targeting is 'tried, tested and works': tab-targeting is boring as fuck, I can't stand it. One of the most appealing things about this game is the way it is moving away from many traditional MMO mechanics such as tab-targeting. So for him to bring it up as a negative, that's just weird.
• Bad animations: I don't know what he is talking about. The animations are great in this game. It's one of its strengths.
• Attacks are committed to once initiated, which is bad: I don't see this as a bad thing at all.
• Quests are 'kill 10 turkeys': so no different from WoW then? Which he adores?
• You have to walk everywhere: this ties into the PvP system, there's no mounts for a reason.

He makes a broad point about there being limited abilities in the game, which I agree at first is surprising and seems like a negative thing. In WoW you used have 20 abilities or more, as he points out. What I think he's missing, though, is that this game requires you to do a lot more than simply hit your abilities correctly. There's active movement, blocking, dodging, thinking about damage types (more on that in a second), use of consumables mid-combat, and so on. All of this stuff rarely happens in your traditional MMO, usually you just stand in front of mobs and use your abilities in sequence. I feel like NW is moving away from 'rotation'-style MMO gameplay towards something more action-oriented. Traditional WoW players aren't going to like that idea, and that's what Mack is, he's a hardcore WoW player.

Note I'm not saying that what NW is doing is, or is going to be, better than what WoW does (i.e. rotations). I'm simply pointing out that NW has different concepts in mind for gameplay. So dissing it because it 'only' has three-to-six active abilities seems to miss the mark. A game isn't automatically better just because it has 20+ abilities.

Here's a combat video which goes into detail on some mechanics that NW has which I think are quite interesting:



Anyway personally I'm still a little on the fence about this game, I think it could be good but there's also some things which bother me about it. I don't think it's as bad as Mack makes it out to be.

No, this means that you have more choice and more options.
If you like only 3 active skills, noone prevents you from using only 3 active skills (out of 20) and ignoring all other 17 skills, as in your example.
So adding 20 skills is win-win, you can use 3 of them, others can use 20. Choice.

 

[Whisper]

I've still seen no evidence they fixed the PvP. Going from open world territory control to instanced arenas was the absolute worst thing to happen to this game. It was clear they were really banking on the PvP and guild warfare. But when they took it out they just replaced it with soulless PvE grind and relegated all PvP to it's own self contained block that has no actual baring or reactivity within the game. Pathetic. It really seems like this is a game that doesn't know what it wants to be. And that's down to management.

BTW, everything I wanted out of Ashes of Creation (PvP, Node system, castle sieges) was present and working in the recent alpha. And it all worked within the game world seemlessly. So New World looks even more like a lame duck to me.

Ashes of Creation looks more fun in first alpha than in about-to-release New World.

 

[ADL]

If you were to add 20 skills, it becomes TERA all over again where the game is really just a run-of-the-mill hotbar MMO with mouse look and click replacing your basic attack button. New World's combat is more comparable to Dark Souls 3 with the weapon arts system than to anything in the MMO space and it's weird seeing people argue that New World should change to be more like the hundreds of games that already exist.

 

[Ulysa]

For me, fewer skills equals less fun fight. I like having lots of options... That said I can still enjoy it I guess.

 

[Lucumo]

But if you can't "lose your stuff", then the only reason to kill anyone at all is to grief them, and this isn't exactly popular either. Even in no-stuff-loss scenarios, people don't seem to enjoy being killed over and over by some guy who's clearly doing it just to torment them since he gains nothing from it.

Dunno, seemed to work fine in WoW where the other faction could easily gank people. Also, griefing would be if you kill the player again and again and again as soon as he respawns and without any reason.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

The reason why you kill people in these games is because it's fun.

All this "griefing" pearl clutching, I had to check to see if I was on RPG CODEX or REDDIT. I have no idea why MMORPGs are trying very hard to move into near complete carebear mode and away from concepts like open world PVP or perpetually enabled PVP servers but it is one of the worst choices to go with. I don't even like that bullshit they call "instanced PVP" or "opt in." It's retarded. The amount of times I see some asshole steal a mining node I was going towards but because we all live in Shangri-La and hold hands I have to basically go, "aw shucks!" instead of my happily relinquishing all control to my primal psychotic gamer instinct of taking out something sharp and making them bleed numbers.

It's why so many MMORPGs are boring because there's no risk of minding your own business and getting made a victim. But then you go, "nah fuck that nigga, I ain't no bitch" and make THAT cocksucker the victim instead. PVE and PVP are a necessary marriage for an MMORPG to have some life and make memories out of it. If it's just PVE or pointless and rampant PVP? Well then you just have two gay dads and nothing good comes from that, believe me.

Wait, don't believe me. I don't have two gay dads okay.

 

[Yosharian]

I'm not entirely sure Mack is being fair to the game honestly. I do like Mack's content and usually he has something interesting to say. But some of the points he raised in this video were pretty off the mark.

For example, he said:

• There's no way to buff/debuff: wrong, there are plenty of abilities that buff/debuff
• No way to parry the enemy: there are blocks?
• You can't kite: there are several abilities which kite, stun, snare, etc
• You can't interrupt: there are abilities which interrupt.

Also:

• Tab-targeting is 'tried, tested and works': tab-targeting is boring as fuck, I can't stand it. One of the most appealing things about this game is the way it is moving away from many traditional MMO mechanics such as tab-targeting. So for him to bring it up as a negative, that's just weird.
• Bad animations: I don't know what he is talking about. The animations are great in this game. It's one of its strengths.
• Attacks are committed to once initiated, which is bad: I don't see this as a bad thing at all.
• Quests are 'kill 10 turkeys': so no different from WoW then? Which he adores?
• You have to walk everywhere: this ties into the PvP system, there's no mounts for a reason.

He makes a broad point about there being limited abilities in the game, which I agree at first is surprising and seems like a negative thing. In WoW you used have 20 abilities or more, as he points out. What I think he's missing, though, is that this game requires you to do a lot more than simply hit your abilities correctly. There's active movement, blocking, dodging, thinking about damage types (more on that in a second), use of consumables mid-combat, and so on. All of this stuff rarely happens in your traditional MMO, usually you just stand in front of mobs and use your abilities in sequence. I feel like NW is moving away from 'rotation'-style MMO gameplay towards something more action-oriented. Traditional WoW players aren't going to like that idea, and that's what Mack is, he's a hardcore WoW player.

Note I'm not saying that what NW is doing is, or is going to be, better than what WoW does (i.e. rotations). I'm simply pointing out that NW has different concepts in mind for gameplay. So dissing it because it 'only' has three-to-six active abilities seems to miss the mark. A game isn't automatically better just because it has 20+ abilities.

Here's a combat video which goes into detail on some mechanics that NW has which I think are quite interesting:



Anyway personally I'm still a little on the fence about this game, I think it could be good but there's also some things which bother me about it. I don't think it's as bad as Mack makes it out to be.

No, this means that you have more choice and more options.
If you like only 3 active skills, noone prevents you from using only 3 active skills (out of 20) and ignoring all other 17 skills, as in your example.
So adding 20 skills is win-win, you can use 3 of them, others can use 20. Choice.

That's a very simplistic argument, quite easy to disprove. Let's say I add 40 skills, my game is now better than your 20 skill game because more choice. Using your logic.

 

[Lucumo]

The reason why you kill people in these games is because it's fun.

PVE and PVP are a necessary marriage for an MMORPG to have some life and make memories out of it. If it's just PVE or pointless and rampant PVP? Well then you just have two gay dads and nothing good comes from that, believe me.

In the end, that's what it comes down to pretty much. Whether it's fun because of role-playing or because one likes to fight or simply because one likes to grief, it doesn't really matter.

Depends on what you mean with "life". A pure PvE MMORPG can certainly work but then it's rather confined and one will get bored eventually (when the content runs out), unless one really likes grinding dungeons or hanging out with people met in that MMORPG. Personally, I like completely open PvP (maybe exclude the starter area) where you can get killed any time. Of course, villages/towns/cities ideally have a few/lot of guards, depending on the size. Dropping loot when getting killed PvP isn't necessary...but I don't mind it either. Getting killed PvE should result in durability damage to your gear as well as experience loss. After all, dying should be punishing.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

here's how non-structured pvp works in MMOs:
the side with more people wins

 

[Black]

Make some friends.