Interview Age of Decadence - Big in France

[thesheeep]

StarCraft is the new chess.

Brilliant! I was looking for a good quote to replace my old sig...

 

[Seboss]

How is JA2 an RPG?

I concur, it does not have sword nor magic. Oh wait...

 

[The Feral Kid]

No. Sorry, Eddie.

6 generic orcs and Elminster, a mage with his own Wiki page, are two very different concepts.

Ugh.

Too bad for you that in his wiki page doesn't write that Elminster doesn't threaten your character and you don't fight him.

VD again getting into trouble by himself and doing a lousy job covering his tracks. It's just a generic mage against a party. BG offers tactical challenge from an early stage and against generic opponents and Murrow's example proves it. But I guess you'd have to play BG to know that which you clearly didn't.

 

[Volourn]

"Which is why a 10 year old with fast fingers can beat RT games."

A 10 year old can beat even the most difficult TB games. It's been happening since games have been made. Your lame example is NOt impressive.


"Are you saying that you know better than Saint, the Codex"

Absolutely. Aren't the Codex and Saint the tools who claim BIO games aren't RPGs yet this RPG focused site continually pimps them? And, SP used to spam BIO newsposts when he was active.

R00fles!

 

[Darth Roxor]

Hate to barge into someone else's argument, but oh well.

Erm, silly example, and yes that dose happen in RT. Play BG2, play against a lich, fail a death spell saving throw. Good night gracie.

One more time, generic enemies like orcs and "aquaturds" and special, "top of the food chain" enemies are very different concepts.

You bring in orcs and aquaturds in TB, I bring you goblins and orcs at the start of IWD, that can turn your party into minced meat with their arrows + the ogre at the end of the cave near Easthaven that can instagib nearly each of your party members.

After that, I bring you IWD2 and entering the fort guarded by shitloads of greenskins and shamen (shamans?) with drums that call for reinforcements, which is a constant 'QUICK LOAD' fest

Next, I bring you BG2 and the battle on the second floor of one tavern in the Waukeen Promenade, where you meet a party of adventurers that don't quite like you. I'm p. sure it's possible to 'autopilot' it without any buffs, with just charging in all guns blazing, amirite?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Ugh.

Too bad for you that in his wiki page doesn't write that Elminster doesn't threaten your character and you don't fight him.

Well, excuse me for failing my Baldur's Gate trivia roll.

VD again getting into trouble by himself and doing a lousy job covering his tracks. It's just a generic mage against a party. BG offers tactical challenge from an early stage and against generic opponents and Murrow's example proves it.

Prove it how? A mage killed his party. What mage was that? One of the incompetent assassins? I'm surprised that he was a threat then.

Anyway, so what "tactical challenge" did Tarnesh the mage assassin offer? Inquiring mind wants to know.

So I was playing Baldur's Gate. I made my character, picked up a few party members and went adventuring. A few screens after the starting location, I ran into a dude who threatened my character. Just one guy. Did he know who he was messing with? His ass was so done for.

A minute or two later, he's mirror imaged, stunning/mind numbing my characters, and shooting off magic missiles killing my characters. Everyone is wiped out. Dead. Tarnesh 4, me nada. That's real-time with pause combat in a nutshell. You either think, plan carefully, and react to changing situations or you are dead.

So, what did you think about? What clever and careful plans have you executed in order to defeat evil Tarnesh?

 

[Naked Ninja]

What clever and careful plans did you execute to defeat your 6 fearsome orcs? And however did they outwit you the first time?

 

[Volourn]

They didn't. The overpowered him. Just like RANDOM enemies can do in RT games. R00fles!

 

[Claw]

G2 and NotR were challenging, but in a "you have to go back and level up" way. You couldn't employ any tactics (other than "lure one away and kill") and couldn't beat opponents you weren't meant to beat yet. Thus the challenge wasn't of the mental exercise "what should I do?" variety, but of the less exciting "must grind some more, not ready yet" type.

What? No!

Gothic blends player and character skill, and while a high enough level allows you to simply clobber enemies to death without effort, you can make up for lacking character power with skilled control.
That's when combat is the most fun, especially fighting human enemies who can take you down with one or two hits is a great challenge.

Many Gothic veterans takes pride in their ability to defeat a Troll with a stick at a low level. (Not possible in G1)
Just because it's not a "mental exercise" it isn't just a matter of grinding.


Anyway, Vault Dweller and Naked Ninja, don't you have games to develop?

 

[Vault Dweller]

He started it!

 

[Monocause]

Anyway, Vault Dweller and Naked Ninja, don't you have games to develop?

I have it on good authority that both games are ready but they won't be released before Q4 in order to get the best of christmas sales.

 

[Jasede]

lol, strategy games are RPGs ITT.

There's a difference between RPG elements and being an RPG... but of course it's still too early to be enlightened enough to know that.

X-COM 1 is an RPG

 

[Vault Dweller]

You bring in orcs and aquaturds in TB, I bring you goblins and orcs at the start of IWD, that can turn your party into minced meat with their arrows + the ogre at the end of the cave near Easthaven that can instagib nearly each of your party members.

After that, I bring you IWD2 and entering the fort guarded by shitloads of greenskins and shamen (shamans?) with drums that call for reinforcements, which is a constant 'QUICK LOAD' fest

Next, I bring you BG2 and the battle on the second floor of one tavern in the Waukeen Promenade, where you meet a party of adventurers that don't quite like you. I'm p. sure it's possible to 'autopilot' it without any buffs, with just charging in all guns blazing, amirite?

Wait, are you saying that IWD and BG are on tactical par with Jagged Alliance 2 and XCOM? I can't hear you, can you speak louder?

 

[The Feral Kid]

Well, excuse me for failing my Baldur's Gate trivia roll.

You were the one who brought it up when you had no idea what the hell you were talking about. You gave Elminster as an example of BG being challenging due to the enemy's strength and not due to combat system, when such a battle with Elminster never takes place. Be more careful and do your homework next time.

Prove it how? A mage killed his party. What mage was that? One of the incompetent assassins? I'm surprised that he was a threat then.

Maybe he wasn't much of a threat. But he required tactical planning to beat him. Much like these orcs of yours. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Turjan]

Anyway, so what "tactical challenge" did Tarnesh the mage assassin offer? Inquiring mind wants to know.

So I was playing Baldur's Gate. I made my character, picked up a few party members and went adventuring. A few screens after the starting location, I ran into a dude who threatened my character. Just one guy. Did he know who he was messing with? His ass was so done for.

A minute or two later, he's mirror imaged, stunning/mind numbing my characters, and shooting off magic missiles killing my characters. Everyone is wiped out. Dead. Tarnesh 4, me nada. That's real-time with pause combat in a nutshell. You either think, plan carefully, and react to changing situations or you are dead.

So, what did you think about? What clever and careful plans have you executed in order to defeat evil Tarnesh?

Memories. This was the first CRPG I ever played (yes, I don't know any of the classics), and I had no idea of D&D or the mechanics in BG, so Tarnesh was the point where I first put the game away. I played M&M VI instead. When I returned to BG later, I soon learned that you could interrupt spellcasters with competent archers (i.e., not Imoen). That's not a big revelation in hindsight, but it's some kind of tactics, nevertheless.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You were the one who brought it up when you had no idea what the hell you were talking about. You gave Elminster as an example of BG being challenging due to the enemy's strength and not due to combat system, when such a battle with Elminster never takes place. Be more careful and do your homework next time.

Edward wasn't specific when he mentioned the mage. Since I didn't think that the assassin mage was a threat (and I didn't remember him threatening you), I assumed it was Elminster. I was wrong. Please accept my sincere apologies for the inconvenience.

Maybe he wasn't much of a threat. But he required tactical planning to beat him.

Like what? I've already asked you once: what tactics were involved? Instead of replying and proving your point, you simply repeated that there was some tactical planning. Jedi Mind Trick FTW? Anyway, let me sum it up for you:


FACE IT, THE NOTION THAT YOU COULD KILL TARNESH WITHOUT SOME SERIOUS TACTICS IS A FUCKING JOKE!!!

 

[Turjan]

Maybe he wasn't much of a threat. But he required tactical planning to beat him.

Like what? I've already asked you once: what tactics were involved? Instead of replying and proving your point, you simply repeated that there was some tactical planning. Jedi Mind Trick FTW? Anyway, let me sum it up for you:


FACE IT, THE NOTION THAT YOU COULD KILL TARNESH WITHOUT SOME SERIOUS TACTICS IS A FUCKING JOKE!!!

It's nice that you two agree .

 

[The Feral Kid]

Maybe he wasn't much of a threat. But he required tactical planning to beat him.

Like what? I've already asked you once: what tactics were involved? Instead of replying and proving your point, you simply repeated that there was some tactical planning. Jedi Mind Trick FTW? Anyway, let me sum it up for you:


FACE IT, THE NOTION THAT YOU COULD KILL TARNESH WITHOUT SOME SERIOUS TACTICS IS A FUCKING JOKE!!!

It's nice that you two agree .

:D

It's nice he finally got it off his chest.

 

[kingcomrade]

In a real strategic game you should be able to talk your way out of every fight.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Wait, are you saying that IWD and BG are on tactical par with Jagged Alliance 2 and XCOM? I can't hear you, can you speak louder?

Way to pull off a strawman. You wanted dangerous, 'generic, not top of the food chain' monsters from RTwP games and I gave you them.

 

[St. Toxic]

In a real strategic game you should be able to talk your way out of every fight.

And fight your way out of every conversation.

 

[bhlaab]

See, I've been saying this all along: Video Games are for Fags

 

[Vault Dweller]

Wait, are you saying that IWD and BG are on tactical par with Jagged Alliance 2 and XCOM? I can't hear you, can you speak louder?

Way to pull off a strawman. You wanted dangerous, 'generic, not top of the food chain' monsters from RTwP games and I gave you them.

Well, my original point, later reinforced by Dark Underlord, was that generic enemies in TB games such as XCOM, Jagged Alliance 2, and Realms of Arkania are very dangerous due to complexities of TB combat. In fact, DU specifically mentioned that 4 weak Aquaturds killed 12 of his marines. He wasn't talking about a "shitloads of greenskins and shamen", as you so eloquently said.

There is no doubt that a "shitload" of enemies can overpower and kill pretty much anything in RT and TB. Nobody is arguing against that, yet these are the examples that you ladies are coming up with:

RT is not challenging? Hah, I say! How about Resident Evil's El Gigante? Challenging enough? Or a shitload of orcs, bugbears,and shamans? Or Diablo, the Lord of Terror on Hell difficulty?

Way to miss the point.

 

[Volourn]

"was that generic enemies in TB games such as XCOM, Jagged Alliance 2, and Realms of Arkania are very dangerous due to complexities of TB combat"

Lies.

 

[Forest Dweller]

I think Volourn uses a random post generator.