Against the Chris Avellone personality cult

[Lurker King]

This proves that Chris Avellone was pretty conservative a long time ago, before this madness spreaded.

Fixed. I'm sure that I can find dozens of occasions in which he publicly supported social justice activism, including anti-gamer gate feminists and the writers behind the BG:SoD's fiasco.

 

[Sizzle]

This proves that Chris Avellone was pretty conservative a long time ago, before this madness spreaded.

Fixed. I'm sure that I can find dozens of occasions in which he publicly supported social justice activism, including anti-gamer gate feminists and the writers behind the BG:SoD's fiasco.

What MCA personally believes is completely irrelevant, because he is a member of that rare and dying breed - writers who can distance their beliefs from their work.

He wrote Durance - a man who hates women, despises foreigners and non-human races, and considers CLEANSE THEM WITH FIRE a perfectly valid way to deal with people who worship the wrong gods.

A character that's basically the anti-thesis to everything SJW. But that's just one of the many reasons why MCA rules, and most other game industry hack writers could take a few lessons in writing characters and situations that don't conform to their special little snowflake worldviews.

 

[Lurker King]

What MCA personally believes is completely irrelevant, because he is a member of that rare and dying breed - writers who can distance their beliefs from their work.

It is not completely irrelevant because he is legitimizing their agenda with his pedigree.

He wrote Durance - a man who hates women, despises foreigners and non-human races, and considers CLEANSE THEM WITH FIRE a perfectly valid way to deal with people who worship the wrong gods.

Which affects nothing in terms of gameplay. Unless he takes a bigger role as a designer again, his writing will be irrelevant.

 

[Sizzle]

What MCA personally believes is completely irrelevant, because he is a member of that rare and dying breed - writers who can distance their beliefs from their work.

It is not completely irrelevant because he is legitimizing their agenda with his pedigree.

Let me repeat, in case it wasn't clear enough - a man is entitled to his own opinion if it in no way interferes with his work.

Just because certain cretins such as yourself can't make the distinction between what someone says on the internet and what he does with his art is your unfortunate mental deficiency.

He wrote Durance - a man who hates women, despises foreigners and non-human races, and considers CLEANSE THEM WITH FIRE a perfectly valid way to deal with people who worship the wrong gods.

Which affects nothing in terms of gameplay. Unless he takes a bigger role as a designer again, his writing will be irrelevant.

An impressively retarded non-answer, even for you. Seriously, man, if you have nothing intelligent, meaningful or true to say, why do you always insist on hitting the post reply button?

 

[l3loodAngel]

This proves that Chris Avellone was pretty conservative a long time ago, before this madness spreaded.

Fixed. I'm sure that I can find dozens of occasions in which he publicly supported social justice activism, including anti-gamer gate feminists and the writers behind the BG:SoD's fiasco.

What MCA personally believes is completely irrelevant, because he is a member of that rare and dying breed - writers who can distance their beliefs from their work.

Without the ability to distance himself and his beliefs from the work/characters one cannot be called a writer. It's the bare minimum to do the job at a passable level. I don't even understand how this is an issue.

Literally this means that a person cannot write a "drunk who beats his wife" character even if the script requires it. Even though all people are against it.

Nobody is supposed to love Ramsey Bolton, but if the writer is concerned with his beliefs such character will never be written. But this does explain the influx of biowarean characters: one dimensional retards who like ponies.

 

[Lurker King]

Let me repeat, in case it wasn't clear enough - a man is entitled to his own opinion if it in no way interferes with his work.

Just because certain cretins such as yourself can't make the distinction between what someone says on the internet and what he does with his art is your unfortunate mental deficiency.

So let me emphasize again because you willfully ignored what I was trying to say. We are discussing how activism can worsen the state of cRPG writing. Just because Avellone is not doing this with his own characters, doesn’t mean that he is not doing this by other means, e.g., legitimizing the same things you are criticizing by social media and in the game comunity at large. The paragon of good writing that some people here are trying to portrait as the solution is the very same person who is enabling the problem.

 

[Sizzle]

We are discussing how activism can worsen the state of cRPG writing.

You know what worsens the state of CRPG writing even more? Bad writing! Shocking, I know.

Just because Avellone is not doing this with his own characters, doesn’t mean that he is not doing this by other means, e.g., legitimizing the same things you are criticizing by social media and in the game comunity at large. The paragon of good writing that some people here are trying to portrait as the solution is the very same person who is enabling the problem.

Of course, I see it now - his is a very subtle tactic. Make great characters that feature no agenda, but bring the gaming industry to the SJW side with your tweets. Brilliant!


Seriously, how have you not been dumbfucked yet?

 

[Lurker King]

Of course, I see it now - his is a very subtle tactic. Make great characters that feature no agenda, but bring the gaming industry to the SJW side with your tweets.

This is the kind of thing that Avellone has been saying about the very same thing you guys are criticizing:

Chris Avellone has played Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear and is "pretty jealous" of its writing
Source

Chris Avellone on Why He Was Impressed by Siege of Dragonspear
Source

Whose opinion have more influence on game designers and writers perspectives? Yours or Avellone’s?

 

[Sizzle]

Of course, I see it now - his is a very subtle tactic. Make great characters that feature no agenda, but bring the gaming industry to the SJW side with your tweets.

This is the kind of thing that Avellone has been saying about the very same thing you guys are criticizing:

Chris Avellone has played Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear and is "pretty jealous" of its writing
Source

Chris Avellone on Why He Was Impressed by Siege of Dragonspear
Source

Whose opinion have more influence on game designers and writers perspectives? Yours or Avellone’s?

So, a lifetime of excellent work, breaking boundaries and experimenting with gameplay and story conventions is somehow invalidated because he had a few nice things to say about a shit game he was hired to provide feedback on?

Gotta love the way your mind works

 

[Lurker King]

I didn’t say that his whole career is invalidated, what I said is that hypocrisy praising him like a solution for his past classics when he is publicly supporting the very hacks we are criticizing.

 

[Sizzle]

I didn’t say that his whole career is invalidated, what I said is that hypocrisy praising him like a solution for his past classics when he is publicly supporting the very hacks we are criticizing.

As long as he continues writing excellent characters and coming up with great narrative and gameplay ideas - he can drown kittens in turpentine, while felating Trent Ostner, and taking it up the ass from Zoe Quinn in his spare time if that's what he wants to do with it.

His work speaks for itself, he doesn't need to like or support the things we (or, more accurately - you, seeing as you have this weird thing where you think you're speaking for the entire Codex) like/dislike/love/hate/good for what it is.

 

[Junmarko]

This proves that Chris Avellone was pretty conservative a long time ago, before this madness spreaded.

Fixed. I'm sure that I can find dozens of occasions in which he publicly supported social justice activism, including anti-gamer gate feminists and the writers behind the BG:SoD's fiasco.

What MCA personally believes is completely irrelevant, because he is a member of that rare and dying breed - writers who can distance their beliefs from their work.

He wrote Durance - a man who hates women, despises foreigners and non-human races, and considers CLEANSE THEM WITH FIRE a perfectly valid way to deal with people who worship the wrong gods.

A character that's basically the anti-thesis to everything SJW. But that's just one of the many reasons why MCA rules, and most other game industry hack writers could take a few lessons in writing characters and situations that don't conform to their special little snowflake worldviews.

Well said. His whole approach can be seen in the first 10 minutes of PS:T - TNO awakes with no memory in the temple of a zealous, sacrificial cult - but meets an apathetic figurehead, Dhall.

Can't remember the exact lines, but Dhall states his own views are not important to TNO and what's more important is he not obstruct the player's autonomy. "Self-made perspective is more important for your road" and Dhall just let's you escape, a result that goes completely against the archetypal setting you're presented.

Sets an unpredictable nature which continues through the whole game, a prime way of doing the otherwise narrow and stagnated systems you see elsewhere.

 

[mondblut]

So, a lifetime of excellent work, breaking boundaries and experimenting with gameplay and story conventions is somehow invalidated because...

As unfortunate as it might be, this happens all the time to pedos, and sjws are much worse than pedos. Pedos rape and corrupt children one at a time, after all.

 

[Lurker King]

So, a lifetime of excellent work, breaking boundaries and experimenting with gameplay and story conventions is somehow invalidated because he had a few nice things to say about a shit game he was hired to provide feedback on?

It’s a symptom of personality cult that someone has being isolated by any form of criticism because of their past work. No matter how much I love PS:T or FO2, the fact is that Avellone has been doing sub-par work for years now, either as a designer, writer or editor. You are talking about great characters, but what great characters? Durance, the NPC that provides wall of text? Sure, if you think that reading walls of text dissociated from gameplay makes a great character. What about his work on Wasteland 2? Or about his editorial job on SoD or T:ToN? Does it sound a good job to you? Do you think that if any other developer did the same he would get the same treatment? What I would expect from Avellone is being a lead designer of a cRPG, or at least working on a good cRPG with a talented team, but what he wants is working as a freelance for shitty developers delivering subpar work, and selling his name on kickstarter stretch goals as a commodity. The fact that he wants to explore other genres doing the same kind of freelancing makes things even less promising. I wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you.

 

[Sizzle]

It’s a symptom of personality cult that someone has being isolated by any form of criticism because of their past work.

You, the guy in love with VD - criticizing personality cults?

No matter how much I love PS:T or FO2, the fact is that Avellone has been doing sub-par work for years now, either as a designer, writer or editor.

I love it how you're always trying to equate "what I think" with "fact" :D

You are talking about great characters, but what great characters?

Just a couple off the top of my head: Kreia, Kaelyn the Dove, the characters (and gameplay innovations) from his Fallout: New Vegas DLCs.

Durance, the NPC that provides wall of text? Sure, if you think that reading walls of text dissociated from gameplay makes a great character.

No, Durance, the character whose "wall of text" provides the best tie in and exploration of PoE's themes in the entire game. Besides being the best character, he's also something we almost never see anymore - an original concept, based on the "Fire and brimstone!" archetype, placed in a world where he makes perfect sense. We're so accustomed to fantasy being bland and tepid, that Durance's zeal, xenophobia, hatred and hypocrisy make him stand out even more. He's a terrible, flawed person, someone who's conflicted, but in such a way that he's the polar opposite of a BioWareian angsty brat.

And that's why, you myopic douche, MCA is the master of his craft - he can make a believably "evil" character who's not really evil, but at the same time - has committed actual atrocities. And after all that, you're still more than happy to listen to him gleefully reminisce about burning heretics and butchering furry halflings.

What about his work on Wasteland 2?

Even if his contribution - the AG Center - was the best possible area in the entire history of gaming, it still wouldn't have saved the overall impression of W2 as a mediocre game and wasted opportunity.

Or about his editorial job on SoD

I was under the impression he was hired to provide some feedback, not necessarily to edit any of it. The game was essentially finished when he came aboard, here he was probably used more as a marketing tool than anything else.

or T:ToN?

In T:ToN he wrote Erritis, one of the few instances where that sad game actually resembled PS:T in spirit. Just like with Durance, he took an original and fun concept, and made the entire game better for it.

And we know how much MCA can write, so the overall lack of content (even though Erritis has more than most, maybe even all, other NPCs) is something that's definitely inXile's fault.

Does it sound a good job to you?

Does this sound like a good proper English?

Do you think that if any other developer did the same he would get the same treatment?

Contrary to popular opinion, the Codex does like a few other developers besides MCA. George Ziets, for example. Or Neal Hallford.

What I would expect from Avellone is being a lead designer of a cRPG, or at least working on a good cRPG with a talented team, but what he wants is working as a freelance for shitty developers delivering subpar work, and selling his name on kickstarter stretch goals as a commodity. The fact that he wants to explore other genres doing the same kind of freelancing makes things even less promising. I wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you.

MCA is planning to open his own game development studio.

Now, we've been over this many times - if you don't know what you're talking about (as you frequently don't) sometimes it's better to just keep your uninformed opinions to yourself

 

[Lurker King]

Just a couple off the top of my head: Kreia, Kaelyn the Dove, the characters (and gameplay innovations) from his Fallout: New Vegas DLCs.

Kreia is a grey character in a black-and-white setting. What a terrible idea. And the player is still forced to carry her around the entire game knowing that she will fuck him later on. His work on FNV is good. Kaelyn is good, but you "forgot" to include Gann, which is horrible. i'm detecting a pattern here. Praise the good things and ignore the bad.

And that's why, you myopic douche, MCA is the master of his craft - he can make a believably "evil" character who's not really evil, but at the same time - has committed actual atrocities. And after all that, you're still more than happy to listen to him gleefully reminisce about burning heretics and butchering furry halflings.

You need to consider how the NPC fits in the gameplay, his quests, etc. Just analyzing walls of text as piece of literature is a superficial way of understanding NPCs.

Even if his contribution - the AG Center - was the best possible area in the entire history of gaming, it still wouldn't have saved the overall impression of W2 as a mediocre game and wasted opportunity.

Any person who doesn’t have an agenda to defend Avellone would say that AG is awful.

I was under the impression he was hired to provide some feedback, not necessarily to edit any of it. The game was essentially finished when he came aboard, here he was probably used more as a marketing tool than anything else.

Of course, we must assume that they must be lying; otherwise, we would have to admit that he did a terrible job. The fact that he is being used as marketing tool for hacks is also dishonest.

In T:ToN he wrote Erritis, one of the few instances where that sad game actually resembled PS:T in spirit. .

No, he didn’t

And we know how much MCA can write, so the overall lack of content (even though Erritis has more than most, maybe even all, other NPCs) is something that's definitely inXile's fault.

If he present memorable characters, that’s his merit. If he deliver superficial characters, that’s the developer’s fault. That’s super logic.

MCA is planning to open his own game development studio.

I wouldn’t get my hopes up.

sometimes it's better to just keep your uninformed opinions to yourself

It’s only uninformed if you can’t stand that someone can criticize your idol.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Sometimes I wonder how empty and boring lives some people must live when the cultural marxist SJW gay agenda globalist conspiracy is the only thing giving meaning to them.

 

[Junmarko]

Lurker King Is your

label starting to sting or something?

 

[Sizzle]

Just a couple off the top of my head: Kreia, Kaelyn the Dove, the characters (and gameplay innovations) from his Fallout: New Vegas DLCs.

Kreia is a grey character in a black-and-white setting. What a terrible idea.

The fact that she is a gray character in what is essentially a wonky and simplistic good v bad universe is what elevates her and the entire game into something better than mere Star Wars.

And the player is still forced to carry her around the entire game knowing that she will fuck him later on.

Why, yes, if the player completes the game once, he will know that she's evil and won't want to take her on his next playthrough. :D He'll be all like: "But I know she wants to screw me over, so why do I have to take her with me? Fuck you, MCA, my character should be able to know this now!" :D

You're a retard, LK

His work on FNV is good. Kaelyn is good, but you "forgot" to include Gann, which is horrible. i'm detecting a pattern here. Praise the good things and ignore the bad.

I included a couple of characters I personally consider great. I don't consider Gann great, but he's not bad, either. You probably dislike him because he was originally meant to be bisexual.

And that's why, you myopic douche, MCA is the master of his craft - he can make a believably "evil" character who's not really evil, but at the same time - has committed actual atrocities. And after all that, you're still more than happy to listen to him gleefully reminisce about burning heretics and butchering furry halflings.

You need to consider how the NPC fits in the gameplay, his quests, etc. Just analyzing walls of text as piece of literature is a superficial way of understanding NPCs.

Yes, and in all of those categories - Durance is a great fit. But you're an "all or nothing" sort of edgy tard, so you dislike PoE so much you can't stand the thought of there being a single praise-worthy thing about it.

Even if his contribution - the AG Center - was the best possible area in the entire history of gaming, it still wouldn't have saved the overall impression of W2 as a mediocre game and wasted opportunity.

Any person who doesn’t have an agenda to defend Avellone would say that AG is awful.

Highpool is worse

I was under the impression he was hired to provide some feedback, not necessarily to edit any of it. The game was essentially finished when he came aboard, here he was probably used more as a marketing tool than anything else.

Of course, we must assume that they must be lying; otherwise, we would have to admit that he did a terrible job. The fact that he is being used as marketing tool for hacks is also dishonest.

You're really stretching here to prove that MCA is somehow an inept hack :D That's nice, keep it up. Maybe you'll think of something :D

In T:ToN he wrote Erritis, one of the few instances where that sad game actually resembled PS:T in spirit. .

No, he didn’t

No he didn't what? Write him? Succeed in making a good character? If you're going to continue spamming these forums with your inane drivel, at least learn how to communicate properly.

And we know how much MCA can write, so the overall lack of content (even though Erritis has more than most, maybe even all, other NPCs) is something that's definitely inXile's fault.

If he present memorable characters, that’s his merit. If he deliver superficial characters, that’s the developer’s fault. That’s super logic.

No - if he has a history of coming up with intelligent and finely written characters that are brimming with content and stuff to say, and what we got in T:ToN was - not just from Erritis, but from every NPC - a barebones character with barely any interjections, banter and content - then yeah, I'd say it's more likely that inXile, and not MCA, screwed up on that front

MCA is planning to open his own game development studio.

I wouldn’t get my hopes up.

No, I wouldn't expect you to get excited because of that. The odds of his studio being named Iron Tower are slim to none

sometimes it's better to just keep your uninformed opinions to yourself

It’s only uninformed if you can’t stand that someone can criticize your idol.

Criticism is one thing. Blatantly making up shit to suit your lack of arguments - is another

 

[Humanity has risen!]

I never understood why people liked him so much, his games are so ridiculously pretentious.

 

[Marten Broadcloak]

So let me emphasize again because you willfully ignored what I was trying to say. We are discussing how activism can worsen the state of cRPG writing.

Can I join the anti-activism action? Because activism makes things bad, so I want to join a cause to fight activism.

 

[Darkzone]

This proves that Chris Avellone was pretty conservative a long time ago, before this madness spreaded.

Fixed. I'm sure that I can find dozens of occasions in which he publicly supported social justice activism, including anti-gamer gate feminists and the writers behind the BG:SoD's fiasco.

What MCA personally believes is completely irrelevant, because he is a member of that rare and dying breed - writers who can distance their beliefs from their work.
He wrote Durance - a man who hates women, despises foreigners and non-human races, and considers CLEANSE THEM WITH FIRE a perfectly valid way to deal with people who worship the wrong gods.
A character that's basically the anti-thesis to everything SJW. But that's just one of the many reasons why MCA rules, and most other game industry hack writers could take a few lessons in writing characters and situations that don't conform to their special little snowflake worldviews.

You mean the Durance, who is incredibly ugly in his early 40s with pox scars, a scraggly beard and sweats continuously. ( The prototype of the fat basement dwelling male neckbearded shitlord gamer in his 40s with skin irretations (skin fungus), who lives with his parents. And hates women and foreigners, because the first group don't want him and the second group gets the first group. )
I would suggest that this does prove that MCA is a SJW, and that he is not even imaginative on developing characters. Because this is the stereotype projected by the media and SJW on the gamers, who gave a contra to the the SJWs and their agenda.
If he would have made a main hero that is proven true in the end on his dislike for foreigners and dislike of women and whose motivations are feasible to follow or even to think alike, then you would have had a point.

 

[Jazz_]

The reaching in this thread...

 

[PEACH]

I never understood why people liked him so much, his games are so ridiculously pretentious.

I'm not sure pretentious is the word you're looking for. Beamdog opting to add their own content without solicitation in BG is pretentious, MCA trying to use the medium to convey themes and ideas that are offbeat or atypical is not. Can't imagine KOTOR2, for example, would have any value if he didn't inject it with a foil like Kreia.

I can see the philosophizing not being everyone's cup of tea, but that doesn't mean it's synonymous with pretension.

 

[Old One]

Can I join the anti-activism action? Because activism makes things bad, so I want to join a cause to fight activism.

I've been a social inactivist for years. I would let you join me, but that would be an action, and to that I am fundamentally opposed.